Solar electric a highly attractive energy option

Careful, Dave. You're making way too much sense. If you keep that up, you're liable to wind up on some quasi-government/corporate list of potential anarchists deemed to be a threat to the existing power structure ... literally. Unless, of course, the "energy" industry can figure out a way to use your ideas and expertise and somehow gain a monopoly on solar power, then sell it back to the consumer at a huge profit. I can almost hear the wheels in their little pin-heads turning ...

The Truth wrote:

Careful, Dave. You're making way too much sense. If you keep that up, you're liable to wind up on some quasi-government/corporate list of potential anarchists deemed to be a threat to the existing power structure ... literally. Unless, of course, the "energy" industry can figure out a way to use your ideas and expertise and somehow gain a monopoly on solar power, then sell it back to the consumer at a huge profit. I can almost hear the wheels in their little pin-heads turning ...

When I hear 'be careful,' I don't get what I am supposed to get. Maybe because my parents never did that to me when I was being prepared for the rest of my life.

Do you care to explicate? It would be helpful to know your wisdom on this matter. What to do!

Thanks.

PV is an interesting proposition, though it seems as if the technology might need to be refined to improve efficiency. I'm curious if any one knows if the viability of a hydrogen power plant is being researched. I would imagine that would produce large amounts of energy from the most abundent element in the universe.

glass onion wrote:

PV is an interesting proposition, though it seems as if the technology might need to be refined to improve efficiency. I'm curious if any one knows if the viability of a hydrogen power plant is being researched. I would imagine that would produce large amounts of energy from the most abundent element in the universe.

Although abundant, hydrogen is not available for use as an energy source without expending more energy than the free hydrogen will produce.

His cost analysis for PV solar is right on the price scale. Right around 8 dollars per watt installed. There are several companies out there working on CIGS solar cells. One company in particular is nanosolar;www.nanosolar.com is making product runs of solar cells and selling them to a solar company in Germany. If they do what they say they can do with their technology,they say 99 cents per watt. If they can do this,your cost to install solar would be right around $2.35 per watt installed. Basically take a 70,000.00 dollar system down to about 22,000. The other companies Heliovolt and Innovalight are still working on their products at this time. Another technology that may make any PV solar more efficient is what has been called 'moth eyes'. There is a group looking at antireflective coatings based on moth eyes. It seems moths have eyes that redirect the light back into the eye and lets little escape. This kind of technology could be used to capture and hold more incident sunlight to be absorbed by the solar cells.

Let me repeat.

Talk is cheap. When solar will demonstrate IN PRACTICE the ability to deliver the amount required by modern civilization, the reliability currently offered by coal /oil /gas /nuclear, and a lower ecological impact than the current modalities, then one can discuss policies.

No, and there is no free lunch. Because currently, solar device production require a grossly polluting process. The footprint of solar will require land far exceeding the size of the Chernobyl exclusion zone - without the side benefit of a natural preserve.

So currently solar is low output, costly, polluting, and land intensive. RESOLVE at least half of solar's problems (don't just say "we're about to solve them") before going luddite on nuclear power.

And one last thing - and here global solar power can land us in a gigantic mess. TWICE in the XIXth century solar energy at earth surface was significantly reduced by massive volcano eruptions. We were luckier in the XXth century. Question is:
"Do you feel lucky, punk?"

And what precisely do you use for electrons at night?

BDV wrote:

And one last thing - and here global solar power can land us in a gigantic mess. TWICE in the XIXth century solar energy at earth surface was significantly reduced by massive volcano eruptions. We were luckier in the XXth century. Question is:
"Do you feel lucky, punk?"

The people who suffered through the "year without a summer" probably didn't consider themselves lucky.

Koz wrote:

<quoted text>The people who suffered through the "year without a summer" probably didn't consider themselves lucky.

Exactly my point. In addition to decrease in solar power, by altering wind patterns, such volcanic megaexplosion may also affect wind power production.

If say 50% of world energy would come from wind and solar, following the volcanic erruption their yield would drop by half, suddenly world energy production would drop to 75%.

How would we make up the missing 25%? Starving / dying?

I'll jump in and say we've got the plan to produce ~350MW(e)/year of concentrating parabolic troughs and ORC gen-sets. Each unit would be in the 50-400kW(e) range and ideally suited towards a commercial sized grid-tied DG model.

Because of the way our panels are designed and the install rates we can achieve, we're pricing systems at $3/W(e)peak, and expect to deliver 20-year electricity at $90/MWh.

Visit http://www.solarandthermal.com/ for more information.

Good for you ctyankee.

Just of curiousity:
Did you guys model the impact of a Krakatoa-like event on your energy production/profitability?

HomerTheEmperor wrote:

And what precisely do you use for electrons at night?

The current way to go is on the grid. That's what you do for electrons at night. There are many examples of such systems running that actually produce excess.

http://www.appalachianenergy.com/news-press/

http://www.blueridgenow.com/article/20071208/...

I'm going to built my own solar panel made up of 100 crude glass bottle interconnected - 1 litre bottle and fill them with water and transducer connected ; you think it cheaper?

What about nanotechnology solar energy that scientist are working on? Possibly cheaper, more flexible membrane, provide energy with the help of capacitive storage... able to lightup a single house for few days. I'm thinking it won't maked to the consumer market, the greedy profitering utility cos will buy patent!

Or a solar furnance that produce 100 Megawatt - seen it Fortune Mag?

BDV wrote:

Let me repeat.
Talk is cheap. When solar will demonstrate IN PRACTICE the ability to deliver the amount required by modern civilization, the reliability currently offered by coal /oil /gas /nuclear, and a lower ecological impact than the current modalities, then one can discuss policies.
No, and there is no free lunch. Because currently, solar device production require a grossly polluting process. The footprint of solar will require land far exceeding the size of the Chernobyl exclusion zone - without the side benefit of a natural preserve.
So currently solar is low output, costly, polluting, and land intensive. RESOLVE at least half of solar's problems (don't just say "we're about to solve them") before going luddite on nuclear power.
And one last thing - and here global solar power can land us in a gigantic mess. TWICE in the XIXth century solar energy at earth surface was significantly reduced by massive volcano eruptions. We were luckier in the XXth century. Question is:
"Do you feel lucky, punk?"

Well how would one say life is lucky, how does this sound, I recently concluded there is a way to modify photovoltaic alone to enable the production of High Voltage on a nearly constant 24 hr cycle, I know that may sound unbelievable but it's on it's way to happening and I am certain of that.

WORLD IDIOT ONES wrote:

I'm going to built my own solar panel made up of 100 crude glass bottle interconnected - 1 litre bottle and fill them with water and transducer connected ; you think it cheaper?
What about nanotechnology solar energy that scientist are working on? Possibly cheaper, more flexible membrane, provide energy with the help of capacitive storage... able to lightup a single house for few days. I'm thinking it won't maked to the consumer market, the greedy profitering utility cos will buy patent!
Or a solar furnance that produce 100 Megawatt - seen it Fortune Mag?

No solar energy in Brooklyn, Since the Dodgers left town it's been an endless night.

darkstar4d wrote:

Well how would one say life is lucky, how does this sound, I recently concluded there is a way to modify photovoltaic alone to enable the production of High Voltage on a nearly constant 24 hr cycle, I know that may sound unbelievable but it's on it's way to happening and I am certain of that.

Just be prepared when you're ready to go commercial to have your device banned beause it is in some contortuous way detrimental to the health of spotted nothumbenland cuckatoo.

BDV wrote:

<quoted text>
Just be prepared when you're ready to go commercial to have your device banned beause it is in some contortuous way detrimental to the health of spotted nothumbenland cuckatoo.

Naaa, in fact I can build the perfect nest for researchers to observe their nesting behavior patterns for the next 25 yrs, you see anyone who tries to take this concept out will be risking their career, this change is too important for games like that to be attempted.
This step is 100% beneficial across the board, though the power companies won't be too happy once they realize how it will impact their ability to profit from power generation.

This concept is some what new, I know there will be a few issues here and there that will need to be improved, which will be an easy step to deal with as time will prove, but all n all what counts is that it will enable power generation to the scale that the current system we pay for is able to do, but at a much lower cost to the consumer.

Power is essential to every day life as you know, I see our system as not really being as advanced as we've been lead to believe, it's done so in certain areas, but if you look at it a certain way you'll realize it's not different then it was during the early 20th century when it comes to cumbustion, for myself I would rather have a system that I can create that will enable myself to generate more then enough power at my location and be able to loop back a higher level of power then what I need for myself. In my book it's better to be paid then to pay out to the system.
My taxes are high enough, I just feel it's time for a change that makes life better to myself and those interested in following the same practice.