Covina woman killed in crash was returning from Mt. SAC field trip

But according to your logic is that every accident can be avoided if we just drive slow. So if the truck was going 55 and we tried to pass is it okay or should we go 50? or how about the truck was going 45 and we tried to pass or go 40 on the freeway? The speed doesnt matter becuase the car heading toward us was flying down the freeway at 70-80mph and it all happen so fast, within a sec we had already swerved. I mean we could have been driving 45 and rear ended by someone who was going 80 and swerved and rolled. You cant prevent everything. Plus i doubt the truck was going 66. We were pulling a hill. Plus since you have never been in an accident, its hard for you to imagine how fast it all went down. I didnt realize it until this accident, which was my first.

Drunk With Power wrote:

"this driver saved 9 of us due to his driving"
Looks at CHP Report, re-reads Matthew's post. I'm sure you've been thru a lot-but that's a real headscratcher. This kid wasn't in a caravan on Airport Road thru Bagdad like my cousin-THAT'S saving your passengers. This guy,@ the very least, reflected poor comprehension of traffic laws, to the detriment f school property & the lives of his fellow students.

So what do you call it then, if its not saving us from a previous choice? If someone makes a bad choice but then makes a good one, protecting lives that were put in danger, what do you call it?

Matthew wrote:

But according to your logic is that every accident can be avoided if we just drive slow. So if the truck was going 55 and we tried to pass is it okay or should we go 50? or how about the truck was going 45 and we tried to pass or go 40 on the freeway? The speed doesnt matter becuase the car heading toward us was flying down the freeway at 70-80mph and it all happen so fast, within a sec we had already swerved. I mean we could have been driving 45 and rear ended by someone who was going 80 and swerved and rolled. You cant prevent everything. Plus i doubt the truck was going 66. We were pulling a hill. Plus since you have never been in an accident, its hard for you to imagine how fast it all went down. I didnt realize it until this accident, which was my first.

"plus since you have never been in an accident, its hard for you to imagine how fast it all went down."

You are so naive...just lay down and rest, you obviously haven't fully recovered.

First of all, what James and Patches has stated is completely unnecessary. It's great that you have your own opinion, but what you say is completely hindsight bias, and on that same note, it doesn't matter what you think. At times like these,we don't need to hear it. You call this bullcrap? I call it life. You talk about drivers not taking responsibilities? Well you are completely mistaken, responsibility is the first thing he did. You have no right to demean his valor, not when you haven't experienced it personally. It's easy to say things behind a monitor. You talk about society accepting these actions? Why don't you ask why the government is so corrupt? Why not ask why the United States claims to be a democratic government when we have troops in the Middle East using warfare as means of conformity? What right do you have to degrade the driver of the vehicle? Your words are nothing but derogatory. Now let me clear a few things up, you don't need a special truck license because it's obviously not a truck. Student drivers? Let me ask you, what differentiates a student driver from a regular driver, or perhaps what your thinking, an adult driver? The only thing that varies is that the driver attends college. He's clearly an adult with plenty of driving experience. Easily preventable accident? It wouldn't be called an accident if it was easily preventable. There is no easily preventable accident. Dying on the roads? People die everywhere in every situation in any given minute. If you are so just, why not begin to do something yourself? Go fight crime. Every propaganda begins with an individual. Quit spending the five years on your computer trying to draw attention because you are socially inadequate to the public. And please quit using the phrase "politically correct," your embarrassing yourself. Quit complaining about how your sick and tired of this and that, why don't you go do something to change that? It's easy to talk, but walking it has become a thinner line, hasn't it? You talk about letting professionals drive, well he is a professional, he is licensed by the state of California. Or perhaps I'm misconceiving your thought process. I'm sorry were you referring to race car drivers? Sarcasm aside, most drivers would have done the same trying to pass the truck and it is only logical to speed ahead to pass it. Now I'm not saying its right to do so, don't get me wrong, but how exactly do you know the driver was going 80? Because the news article states so? I'm sorry buddy, but every news report and news article contain a certain amount of bias as well as an error bias. If you do believe it, your gullible. The number is calculated through an estimate based on a certain amount of corresponding factors. The police weren't there on site at the moment it had occured. It is the sole reason as to why witnesses aren't held liable/credible as factual evidence. The reality of the matter is, what's done is done. He made a mistake at the time, I ain't denying that, but that's part of being human, making mistakes and living up to it. Did you think of any other factors? Were you driving on the same road? The fact is, he managed to avoid a head on collision, which would have had more fatalities and casualites as a result, and it was just a rather unfortunate incident that had to take place. Accidents happen every day. You can't point fingers when you weren't there to experience the predicament first hand. It only shows how immature you as an "adult" really are.

And let's not forget that driving in any state for that matter, the highway speed limit is hardly ever, and I emphasize ever, obeyed. 65 speed limit? Flow of traffic is 75-80mph...Now don't tell me you've never sped above the speed limit patches, james, and whomever else is ridiculing my fellow friends, that's kind of hard to believe.

Louie wrote:

First of all, what James and Patches has stated is completely unnecessary. It's great that you have your own opinion, but what you say is completely hindsight bias, and on that same note, it doesn't matter what you think. At times like these,we don't need to hear it. You call this bullcrap? I call it life. You talk about drivers not taking responsibilities? Well you are completely mistaken, responsibility is the first thing he did. You have no right to demean his valor, not when you haven't experienced it personally. It's easy to say things behind a monitor. You talk about society accepting these actions? Why don't you ask why the government is so corrupt? Why not ask why the United States claims to be a democratic government when we have troops in the Middle East using warfare as means of conformity? What right do you have to degrade the driver of the vehicle? Your words are nothing but derogatory. Now let me clear a few things up, you don't need a special truck license because it's obviously not a truck. Student drivers? Let me ask you, what differentiates a student driver from a regular driver, or perhaps what your thinking, an adult driver? The only thing that varies is that the driver attends college. He's clearly an adult with plenty of driving experience. Easily preventable accident? It wouldn't be called an accident if it was easily preventable. There is no easily preventable accident. Dying on the roads? People die everywhere in every situation in any given minute. If you are so just, why not begin to do something yourself? Go fight crime. Every propaganda begins with an individual. Quit spending the five years on your computer trying to draw attention because you are socially inadequate to the public. And please quit using the phrase "politically correct," your embarrassing yourself. Quit complaining about how your sick and tired of this and that, why don't you go do something to change that? It's easy to talk, but walking it has become a thinner line, hasn't it? You talk about letting professionals drive, well he is a professional, he is licensed by the state of California. Or perhaps I'm misconceiving your thought process. I'm sorry were you referring to race car drivers? Sarcasm aside, most drivers would have done the same trying to pass the truck and it is only logical to speed ahead to pass it. Now I'm not saying its right to do so, don't get me wrong, but how exactly do you know the driver was going 80? Because the news article states so? I'm sorry buddy, but every news report and news article contain a certain amount of bias as well as an error bias. If you do believe it, your gullible. The number is calculated through an estimate based on a certain amount of corresponding factors. The police weren't there on site at the moment it had occured. It is the sole reason as to why witnesses aren't held liable/credible as factual evidence. The reality of the matter is, what's done is done. He made a mistake at the time, I ain't denying that, but that's part of being human, making mistakes and living up to it. Did you think of any other factors? Were you driving on the same road? The fact is, he managed to avoid a head on collision, which would have had more fatalities and casualites as a result, and it was just a rather unfortunate incident that had to take place. Accidents happen every day. You can't point fingers when you weren't there to experience the predicament first hand. It only shows how immature you as an "adult" really are.

I am not attacking anyone. I am however putting logic and truth into the mix. Read every one of my comments and refute what I have said. They are responses to off the wall remarks and irrational thinking. Go ahead and see for yourself.

Louie wrote:

First of all, what James and Patches has stated is completely unnecessary. It's great that you have your own opinion, but what you say is completely hindsight bias, and on that same note, it doesn't matter what you think. At times like these,we don't need to hear it. You call this bullcrap? I call it life. You talk about drivers not taking responsibilities? Well you are completely mistaken, responsibility is the first thing he did. You have no right to demean his valor, not when you haven't experienced it personally. It's easy to say things behind a monitor. You talk about society accepting these actions? Why don't you ask why the government is so corrupt? Why not ask why the United States claims to be a democratic government when we have troops in the Middle East using warfare as means of conformity? What right do you have to degrade the driver of the vehicle? Your words are nothing but derogatory. Now let me clear a few things up, you don't need a special truck license because it's obviously not a truck. Student drivers? Let me ask you, what differentiates a student driver from a regular driver, or perhaps what your thinking, an adult driver? The only thing that varies is that the driver attends college. He's clearly an adult with plenty of driving experience. Easily preventable accident? It wouldn't be called an accident if it was easily preventable. There is no easily preventable accident. Dying on the roads? People die everywhere in every situation in any given minute. If you are so just, why not begin to do something yourself? Go fight crime. Every propaganda begins with an individual. Quit spending the five years on your computer trying to draw attention because you are socially inadequate to the public. And please quit using the phrase "politically correct," your embarrassing yourself. Quit complaining about how your sick and tired of this and that, why don't you go do something to change that? It's easy to talk, but walking it has become a thinner line, hasn't it? You talk about letting professionals drive, well he is a professional, he is licensed by the state of California. Or perhaps I'm misconceiving your thought process. I'm sorry were you referring to race car drivers? Sarcasm aside, most drivers would have done the same trying to pass the truck and it is only logical to speed ahead to pass it. Now I'm not saying its right to do so, don't get me wrong, but how exactly do you know the driver was going 80? Because the news article states so? I'm sorry buddy, but every news report and news article contain a certain amount of bias as well as an error bias. If you do believe it, your gullible. The number is calculated through an estimate based on a certain amount of corresponding factors. The police weren't there on site at the moment it had occured. It is the sole reason as to why witnesses aren't held liable/credible as factual evidence. The reality of the matter is, what's done is done. He made a mistake at the time, I ain't denying that, but that's part of being human, making mistakes and living up to it. Did you think of any other factors? Were you driving on the same road? The fact is, he managed to avoid a head on collision, which would have had more fatalities and casualites as a result, and it was just a rather unfortunate incident that had to take place. Accidents happen every day. You can't point fingers when you weren't there to experience the predicament first hand. It only shows how immature you as an "adult" really are.

Don't lump me in with other peoples comments, if you want to address anyone of my posts in particular I will gladly respond to your thoughts on it. I believe in truth and when people come on here making off the wall claims and half truths I will refute and shoot them down every time. It's quite simple. Go ahead and review any of my comments and address me specifically and I can easily justify and back up what i've said.

Louie wrote:

And let's not forget that driving in any state for that matter, the highway speed limit is hardly ever, and I emphasize ever, obeyed. 65 speed limit? Flow of traffic is 75-80mph...Now don't tell me you've never sped above the speed limit patches, james, and whomever else is ridiculing my fellow friends, that's kind of hard to believe.

Don't assume that I speed, I do in fact drive the speed limit. I have never had a traffic violation in the twelve years i've been driving. Speeding is breaking the law, period. Go ahead and justify how it's ok to speed since most people do anyway, and how it's ok to pass a truck in an unsafe manner because we all want to shave 30 seconds off our drive times. You sound like a big ASSUMER to me.

Quite honestly, patches, the statements after the first few weren't meant for you. I was only lumping you along with james, because you said some unnecessary comments, no matter how justifiable you make them to be. There is a difference between your comments and james, and your right, you think with logic, but the logic overall is that, if people are hurt, you don't need to say anything else to increase the severity of that particular pain..its the logic behind eiq...as for the speeding part, I apologize if my assumption had offended you...I made the assumption based on an overall generalization, but now you are no different from me. Your assuming that I sound like an "assumer." Nonetheless, as you hold your opinion, I hold mine, and that is simply that what you have just uttered is bull. What's the speed limit on the 10? 60? 57? 210? 134? Let's just "assume" they are generally all the same speed limit from a certain distance to another distance. Your telling me you've never once broken the law in terms of speeding. So in your twelve years of driving you, never went say 66mph or 67mph, when the limit is 65? If you have been slightly above the limit, have you not already broken the law? Of course, I'm only speaking hypothetically...whether your speaking the truth or lying, it doesn't matter. If your lying, your only lying to yourself. If your telling the truth, then congratulations. Reality is, I don't know you, and I could care less if I ever get to know you...but please refrain yourself from ridiculing my friends and the situation at hand. Let's not forget, it was you who started the argument with them by saying it was "senseless." It wasn't senseless and it wasn't completely irrational, it is only an error in judgment.

Louie wrote:

Quite honestly, patches, the statements after the first few weren't meant for you. I was only lumping you along with james, because you said some unnecessary comments, no matter how justifiable you make them to be. There is a difference between your comments and james, and your right, you think with logic, but the logic overall is that, if people are hurt, you don't need to say anything else to increase the severity of that particular pain..its the logic behind eiq...as for the speeding part, I apologize if my assumption had offended you...I made the assumption based on an overall generalization, but now you are no different from me. Your assuming that I sound like an "assumer." Nonetheless, as you hold your opinion, I hold mine, and that is simply that what you have just uttered is bull. What's the speed limit on the 10? 60? 57? 210? 134? Let's just "assume" they are generally all the same speed limit from a certain distance to another distance. Your telling me you've never once broken the law in terms of speeding. So in your twelve years of driving you, never went say 66mph or 67mph, when the limit is 65? If you have been slightly above the limit, have you not already broken the law? Of course, I'm only speaking hypothetically...whether your speaking the truth or lying, it doesn't matter. If your lying, your only lying to yourself. If your telling the truth, then congratulations. Reality is, I don't know you, and I could care less if I ever get to know you...but please refrain yourself from ridiculing my friends and the situation at hand. Let's not forget, it was you who started the argument with them by saying it was "senseless." It wasn't senseless and it wasn't completely irrational, it is only an error in judgment.

Going over the speed limit happens, I have cruise control to maintain speed and that keeps me within the law usually, are there exceptions? of course. Speeding on a highway and passing unnecessarily is a lapse in good and safe judgement(obviously). My statement of "senseless" is a valid opinion based on what I am commenting on. Your friend with the wild ideas that the lack of an air bag deploying was the cause of this tragedy and that the school is at fault etc. are just plain wrong and it's my choosing to keep things straight and on point. I will "ridicule" ,as you say, as I feel necessary to keep people honest with us and honest with themselves. Denial is ignorance.

And remember, your friends started the finger pointing. Not me.

hey patches, you keep saying we were speeding yet the truth is we werent. But for some reason you cant except the truth. I think you search and argue what you think is true yet you have no idea what the truth is, mainly because you just cant seem to get this detail right.

The van most likely had an onboard computer, if so then we may know the speed. Let's wait and see.

DO NOT PASS
http://i33.tinypic.com/mrblmx.jpg

Also noting the time, please remember your headlights are not just to help you see. They are to help other drivers see your vehicle.

My thought are with the victim's family and friends.

Matthew wrote:

hey patches, you keep saying we were speeding yet the truth is we werent. But for some reason you cant except the truth. I think you search and argue what you think is true yet you have no idea what the truth is, mainly because you just cant seem to get this detail right.

I have an idea what the truth is, the article says 80mph...that's an idea. That detail is believable to me for two reasons. Your van was trying to catch up to the rest of the group(requires acceleration) and your van was trying to pass another vehicle(requires acceleration). I highly doubt everyone in that van was within eyesight of the speedometer to know for fact that your driver was NOT speeding. If the investigation reveals that you guys were not speeding, I will gladly retract my statement and apologize to you and your friends.

The family wanted me to address those of you who are so quick to lay blame on the driver. The sentiment of the family is that this was a horrible and tragic ACCIDENT. They do not blame the driver. It hurts them to hear about those of who are attempting to smear someone (the driver) who is clearly devastated enough. On behalf of Kaitlyn’s family, I respectfully ask that you please stop. If you would like to add to the blog please make it about a great time you had with Kaitlyn and her family or friends or to just pay your respects. Thank you for your understanding.
Close Family Friend

Louie wrote:

First of all, what James and Patches has stated is completely unnecessary. It's great that you have your own opinion, but what you say is completely hindsight bias, and on that same note, it doesn't matter what you think. At times like these,we don't need to hear it. Quit complaining about how your sick and tired of this and that, why don't you go do something to change that? It's easy to talk, but walking it has become a thinner line, hasn't it? You talk about letting professionals drive, well he is a professional, he is licensed by the state of California.

What you've stated about this kid being a "professional driver" is bogus. Kids that age are still "invisible" and often have no sense of danger. There is NO reason Mt. SAC should allow a student driver carrying 10 passengers to go anywhere! Period!
Simple background checks and a valid drivers license does not mean someone is qualified and capable of safely driving a passenger van for several reasons. First, if you have never driven a Van, they are a different beast than your average teen's honda. Throw in the weight of a full load of passengers and the handling charachteristics completely change. Also, most commercial VanPools which carry similar loads not only require a D.L. but also a full physical, which not only checks the health of the individual but screens for drugs as well!
Mt. Sac, you should know better!

AyeAyeAye wrote:

<quoted text>
What you've stated about this kid being a "professional driver" is bogus. Kids that age are still "invisible" and often have no sense of danger. There is NO reason Mt. SAC should allow a student driver carrying 10 passengers to go anywhere! Period!
Simple background checks and a valid drivers license does not mean someone is qualified and capable of safely driving a passenger van for several reasons. First, if you have never driven a Van, they are a different beast than your average teen's honda. Throw in the weight of a full load of passengers and the handling charachteristics completely change. Also, most commercial VanPools which carry similar loads not only require a D.L. but also a full physical, which not only checks the health of the individual but screens for drugs as well!
Mt. Sac, you should know better!

I thought drivers who transported passengers (such as limo drivers, bus drivers, etc.) had to have a certain class license. I'm not sure of the criteria of such a license is, but I wonder if that would apply to this situation.

JackSchitt wrote:

<quoted text>
I thought drivers who transported passengers (such as limo drivers, bus drivers, etc.) had to have a certain class license. I'm not sure of the criteria of such a license is, but I wonder if that would apply to this situation.

The company I work for has a vanpool program where you drive those same type of vans. You don't need a special license, but you do need to pass company certification tests, and get a physical. I imagine Mt SAC has the same thing.
You probably need the special class license if you transport for profit.

I Heart Glendora wrote:

<quoted text>
The company I work for has a vanpool program where you drive those same type of vans. You don't need a special license, but you do need to pass company certification tests, and get a physical. I imagine Mt SAC has the same thing.
You probably need the special class license if you transport for profit.

Maybe the difference is a volunteer position vs. a paid position. This incident may change who is qualified/eligible to drive on behalf of businesses.

Kaitlyn...it's been some time since I've seen you but I hope that our paths will cross again. God must have had something really important for you to do for him, to be the only one to perish.
Keep that beautiful smile. God bless..