EcoNew Mexico plans local workshop

Thats right! Speed of flood, famine, and fire in the Gila Forest and surrounding areas. Encourgae laziness, welfare, and food stamps. Why should we want to teach our children the value of good hard work, and ethics?

FED UP wrote:

Thats right! Speed of flood, famine, and fire in the Gila Forest and surrounding areas. Encourgae laziness, welfare, and food stamps. Why should we want to teach our children the value of good hard work, and ethics?

I think you may have missed a few steps there. Would you care to explain how a workshop on ecotourism leads to laziness, welfare and food stamps? I'm sure it makes perfect sense to *you*, but the rest of us may need a little guidance.

MitchHellman wrote:

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I think you may have missed a few steps there. Would you care to explain how a workshop on ecotourism leads to laziness, welfare and food stamps? I'm sure it makes perfect sense to *you*, but the rest of us may need a little guidance.

I interpreted the post like this; The speed of a flood, ensuing famine, and of course a post-flood fire in the Gila Forest and surrounding areas would no doubt encourage laziness, welfare, and food stamps because homes, jobs and our food supply would be destroyed.

Why should we therefore teach our children the value of good hard work, and ethics, when eco-tourism causes destruction that is irrepairable, leaving us all, children included, without jobs and lack of anything to be ethical about.

Well, that's a little more coherent, anyway. What I question is the contention that eco-tourism causes irreparable destruction. I'd be curious to read any supporting info; it's my understanding that eco-tourists actively seek opportunities to visit places and carry on activities in such a manner that they have little or no impact on the environment-- that's the point.

Here is a definition of eco-tourism, as shown in the WikiPedia entry on the subject:

"Ecotourism (also known as ecological tourism) is travel to fragile, pristine, and usually protected areas that strives to be low impact and (often) small scale. It helps educate the traveler; provides funds for conservation; directly benefits the economic development and political empowerment of local communities; and fosters respect for different cultures and for human rights.Eco tourism is very important so that future generations can experience the wonderful environment we have today. As defined by the co-founder of the Center for Responsible Travel, Martha Honey, Ph.D., in her book Ecotourism and Sustainable Development, Second Edition: Who Owns Paradise?. Most serious studies of ecotourism including several university programs now use this as the working definition.

Ecotourism appeals to ecologically and socially conscious individuals. Generally speaking, it focuses on volunteering, personal growth and learning new ways to live on the planet. It typically involves travel to destinations where flora, fauna, and cultural heritage are the primary attractions. Ecotourism is a conceptual experience, enriching those who delve into researching and understanding the environment around them. It gives us insight into our impacts as human beings and also a greater appreciation of our own natural habitats.

Responsible ecotourism includes programs that minimize the negative aspects of conventional tourism on the environment and enhance the cultural integrity of local people. Therefore, in addition to evaluating environmental and cultural factors, an integral part of ecotourism is the promotion of recycling, energy efficiency, water conservation and creation of economic opportunities for the local communities."

MitchHellman wrote:

Here is a definition of eco-tourism, as shown in the WikiPedia entry on the subject:
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Well there ya have it! Some people in the Grant / Catron County area are convinced that anything that has to do with perserving our environment is a leftist plot to destroy family values. Heckie darn, global warming is a conspriacy by Obamaites who want to take over our land and.....clean it up. Can't have that, it's un-American.

That's only half of it. Those folks are also against them damn tourists coming into the area and spending money at local businesses and paying lodger's taxes.

Go to the place,admire the beauty, bask for a while and when you leave it should look as if nobodies been there! How much of my tax dollars is this gonna cost me to try to teach something that everybody should already know...oh wait, after 40+ years of social liberalism common sense has been all but forgotten. Oh, and if I need a definition the LAST place I go is Wikipedia. The definition alone reeks of Socialism... "socially conscious individuals.""it focuses on volunteering"..."lea rning new ways to live on the planet"..."Ecotouris m is a conceptual experience"..."It gives us insight into our impacts as human beings"... "in addition to evaluating environmental and cultural factors, an integral part of ecotourism is the promotion of recycling, energy efficiency, water conservation"... "Responsible ecotourism includes programs that minimize the negative aspects of conventional tourism on the environment..." If you replace "Eco" with "Complete Control" You would have a clearer picture, in my opinion.

Don't like the Wikipedia definition of eco-tourism? OK-- provide a definition of socialism and explain how it is any way relevant to the original topic of this thread.

MitchHellman wrote:

That's only half of it. Those folks are also against them damn tourists coming into the area and spending money at local businesses and paying lodger's taxes.

ABSOLUTLY NOT TRUE. Tourism is greatly appreciated. Where to the NM tourism dollars go in this state?
The truth is these counties cannot survive on what you call tourism. We need a healthy tax base.
Natural resourses harvested on public land properly, can sustain these areas for generations and help promote tourism. If the county depends on tourist dollars, how much of an increase will it be to pay the taxes to stay in business?

FED UP wrote:

<quoted text>
ABSOLUTLY NOT TRUE. Tourism is greatly appreciated. Where to the NM tourism dollars go in this state?
The truth is these counties cannot survive on what you call tourism. We need a healthy tax base.
Natural resourses harvested on public land properly, can sustain these areas for generations and help promote tourism. If the county depends on tourist dollars, how much of an increase will it be to pay the taxes to stay in business?

Ask Bill "No Thrill" Richardson. Our lodgers tax dollars used to promote tourism. No one can afford a "healthy tax base". And if there was a healthy tax base put in place, politicians in Grant County (like Mary Ann Carillo for instance) would use it for their own personal piggy bank.

Taxes collected if the shops who want the tourism would keep tourists schedules and time frame in mind. Question here! If tourism is greatly appreciated why do all the touristie shops in Silver City close on Sunday? There are more weekend tourists than there are weekday tourists is this not correct, especially now with the economy in the hole.

Eci-tourism sounds scary to a lot of folks. But in reality it is a good thing. There is nothing wrong with promoting natural resources with a plan that will keep these resources in place and alive for future generations to come for everyone to enjoy.

MitchHellman wrote:

That's only half of it. Those folks are also against them damn tourists coming into the area and spending money at local businesses and paying lodger's taxes.

I want to make sure that everybody understands that I was being facetious when I wrote the above.

I strongly believe that tourism is essential to the economic well-being of our area. We have at best 20 years of mining left before we're played out, and farming and ranching barely supports the farmers and ranchers. As I've been saying for some time, you don't have to look very far to see what happens to a town that didn't have a Plan B.

I operate a business that is in demand by both tourists and local alike. I'm open seven days a week, and seven *nights* a week, too. And I'm not alone; Silver City MainStreet recently distributed a flyer that lists 32 downtown businesses that are open on Sunday. It's not easy for a business to do this, especially if it's a small family-owned one... but I find that it's worth doing.

What burns me up is that our Chamber of Commerce can't seem to find consistent volunteers to keep the Visitor Center open on Sundays. It's especially bad when tourists come over from Arizona during Daylight Savings Time; Arizona doesn't follow DST, so when they cross the border into NM, it's an hour later than they thought-- and most of those businesses they were counting on are already closed.

At any rate, if you believe, as I do, that tourism in general and eco-tourism in particular is has the potential to be a useful revenue source for our area, then you should attend the workshop mentioned in the original article... and if you're disturbed/concerned/scared by the prospect of more people coming to see what we have to offer, you should attend as well so that your voice is heard.

Mitch,

Why can I not access the discussion about Dr. Sparks? I just can not get in and have a question / comment I would like to post about the issue.

As editor for "Silver City Topix" do you edit out all disparaging comments about the town, various issues and law enforcement that are controversial?

Since I no longer live in the community, I keep updated via Topix. My parents are from Silver City and their parents were too.

I lived in the area for 30 years and still care about the place. It is good to know that the shops in town are finally staying open on Sunday. The last time I was there, they weren’t.

I remember the days of Phillips Gift Shop, Cosgroves, TG&Y, Toy’s grocers, Hing Lee's, etc. I remember that the bridge on Broadway near Bullard was wooden and you could see the two story hotel that was owned by William Bonnie’s mother. It was wooden and painted green. There is a Snappy Mart there now.

My father told me stories of the days when you could buy a beer at the Buffalo Bar if you were tall enough to reach the bar and had the money. He was born in 1905.

My father also told me a story about Hing Lees. It is the building on the south side of Broadway right next to the big ditch. When he was nine years old on his way into town, the Sheriff was in front of the little two story building. The store was downstairs. The Sheriff stopped my father and told him he would boost him up to the transom window over the door, he was to jump down inside the store and unlock the door.

As he was going through the window he saw the Chinese man who owned the store. He had been beheaded. My father said that seeing that "ruined his day in town."

He remembered when they used to hang people on the north side of the courthouse.

Silver City has a great and colorful history. It also has a lot of problems with crime. Law enforcement has been one of the problems for a long time.

I believe the only way to turn it around is to allow people to voice their complaints. If they can not do this, if there is no attention paid to the mis-deeds of law enforcement it will only continue, the violence, robberies, drugs, etc will continue.

Silver City deserves better.

Looking forward to your reply.

There are a lot of misunderstandings about my position as a Topix editor.

First: it is a volunteer position. I am not compensated in any way.

Basically my work is this: Topix lists out for me all the articles it has found that it thinks may be relevant to Silver City, and I post the ones that I think are relevant. There are several other places in the world named "Silver City" including one near Taunton, MA, one in Idaho, one in Nevada, one in Australia, etc. and I screen those out if the Topix engine didn't do so.

I also *add* articles that Topix didn't find. For example, Topix doesn't do a good job of picking up articles from the Silver City Daily Press, so I check each day's online edition of the SCDP and add them as appropriate. I also get a 'clipping service' generated by Yahoo! which sends me summaries of articles *it* finds and I add to the Silver City stream anything that it turns up that isn't already there.

When somebody reads a particular article on Topix, they have the ability to comment on it. Also, when somebody reads an article online on the Silver City Sun-News website and wishes to comment, his/her comments appear on *Topix* rather than on the Sun-News website.

The editing job I do only involves choosing the *articles* that appear under Local News for Silver City in Topix. I have absolutely no control over what appears in the Comments associated with any particular article.

When I post something in in the Comments, it is solely my opinion and is not in any way associated with either Topix or the Sun-News. The problem *I* have with the Comments is that anybody can leave one without having to authenticate themselves in any way. You can leave a comment under any name, including someone else's, and you don't have to leave a valid e-mail address. What this has meant is that any idiot who wants to do so can say whatever nonsense he feels like, whether it's true or not, with little fear of repercussions. I have tried to present the facts when someone has clearly shown that they were misinformed, but all-in-all I don't take this stuff seriously.

I have no idea why you are unable to get into the Comments section related to Dr. Sparks. I suggest that you go to http://www.topix.com (rather than to the Sun-News website) set yourself up with a signon if you have not doe so already, indicate in the settings that your local area is Silver City, then look for the discussion there.

Thanks for your interest.

Yep, any idiot can say what ever they like.

As far as posters having to authenticate themselves because they fear repercussions, it is possible that most of the posters in these discussions do not feel comfortable giving out any real clues as to who they are because, after all Silver City does have a reputation of violence as well as retaliation by law enforcement.

I have read the posts in these discussions about fear of repercussion, and feel that these posters have a valid point.

Since you pick and choose what we get to read in this forum, is it ethical to call out those who post things you may not agree with?

I can not understand why I it is not possible for me to access the discussion about Dr.Sparks. I am signed on.

Just want to add that as a businessman, someone who is involved with the C of C, and editor of the Topix Forum, I thought you would be interested in the information I posted about the history of the town during the early 1900’s. Maybe newcomers do not take that much interest in the past.

Since you pick and choose what we get to read in this forum, is it ethical to call out those who post things you may not agree with?

Why not? Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Jon Stewart and Rachel Maddow certainly pick and choose what they wish to discuss from the news of the day and express their opinions to the fullest. Let me remind you that I only pick the news articles, not the the comments.

I'd be interested in hearing about any article that doesn't appear here and why you think it should. To the best of my knowledge I have never rejected an article based on whether or not I agreed with it. Similarly, I have seldom rejected flyers posted in my store windows unless they are such that I risk losing a lot of my customers by posting them (or risk having a rock thrown through the window, which has already happened three times since I first opened).

I can not understand why I it is not possible for me to access the discussion about Dr.Sparks. I am signed on.

Here's a link to the discussion. Note that the link may not display in its entirety, but it should work OK anyway:

http://www.topix.com/city/silver-city-nm/2009...

Just want to add that as a businessman, someone who is involved with the C of C, and editor of the Topix Forum, I thought you would be interested in the information I posted about the history of the town during the early 1900’s. Maybe newcomers do not take that much interest in the past.

I *was* interested. Am I somehow required to respond to *everything* you post? And why do you assume that I am unaware of these things?

I first visited Silver City in 1997, with additional trips in 2000, 2001, and 2002 before moving here for good early in 2003. I've already invested more of my time and money and given more back to the community than many long-time residents... so at what point do I stop being a newcomer (according to *you*, anyway)?

MitchHellman wrote:

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Why not? Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Jon Stewart and Rachel Maddow certainly pick and choose what they wish to discuss from the news of the day and express their opinions to the fullest. Let me remind you that I only pick the news articles, not the the comments.
I'd be interested in hearing about any article that doesn't appear here and why you think it should. To the best of my knowledge I have never rejected an article based on whether or not I agreed with it. Similarly, I have seldom rejected flyers posted in my store windows unless they are such that I risk losing a lot of my customers by posting them (or risk having a rock thrown through the window, which has already happened three times since I first opened).
<quoted text>
Here's a link to the discussion. Note that the link may not display in its entirety, but it should work OK anyway:
http://www.topix.com/city/silver-city-nm/2009...
<quoted text>
I *was* interested. Am I somehow required to respond to *everything* you post? And why do you assume that I am unaware of these things?
I first visited Silver City in 1997, with additional trips in 2000, 2001, and 2002 before moving here for good early in 2003. I've already invested more of my time and money and given more back to the community than many long-time residents... so at what point do I stop being a newcomer (according to *you*, anyway)?

Jeeze okay don't get your braids in a knot.

I posted a comment to you as editor asking why I can not get into one stupid post. This has nothing to do with what you choose to post for the readers of Topix. I had no idea that you the “editor” would even perceive this question as blame.

Why compare yourself to Limbaugh, Beck, Stewart and Maddow? You only pick the articles right? My post which obviously has offended you went on to add if it is ethical for you as editor to call the readers of the posts you “pick and choose” idiots. That is rude. Why be rude?

You chose not to remark on my comment about retaliation. I have noticed that all articles about law enforcement that get responses that are adverse to the way law enforcement does business in Grant Count, no longer appear in this forum.
If law enforcement in Grant County was at least partially the way it should be, then maybe you would not have to worry about retaliation i.e.; rocks being thrown through your window.

I did not expect you to reply to my posts. In fact, I am surprised that you have chosen to do so in this manner. If I had expected any response at all it would have been to the colorful history of the town of Silver City that I tried to communicate to you.

End of discussion.

I posted a comment to you as editor asking why I can not get into one stupid post. This has nothing to do with what you choose to post for the readers of Topix. I had no idea that you the “editor” would even perceive this question as blame.

Apparently you've got a short memory. Wasn't it you who said:

As editor for "Silver City Topix" do you edit out all disparaging comments about the town, various issues and law enforcement that are controversial?

You asked, I answered. That's why I went into such detail about what I can and can't do as an editor.

No, I did not call the readers "idiots." What I said was:

What this has meant is that any idiot who wants to do so can say whatever nonsense he feels like, whether it's true or not, with little fear of repercussions.

That statement indicated the *ability* of idiots to post anything they want because of the way Topix handles commenters. That does not indicate that I am calling anybody an idiot-- I was speaking hypothetically.

I have noticed that all articles about law enforcement that get responses that are adverse to the way law enforcement does business in Grant Count, no longer appear in this forum.

Really? Which ones have disappeared? You *do* realize that only the threads that have the most recently-entered comments are the ones that appear, don't you? And that you can access *all* the threads by clicking on the "Click for more" link at the bottom of the list? As of this writing, there are 817 different threads available-- including ones entitled "22-year veteran is new Grant County undersheriff" and "Silver City Police arrest man for possession of cocaine" (which happens to contain a comment from you in it). These threads are far from complimentary to local law enforcement, yet they, and others like them, are still available.

Morning Silver City - we are heading your way for our EcoTourism Workshop on Friday so it was with great interest I have been reading your threads - it certainly looks like we will have a lively crowd which will keep things interesting!

I thought I would share some national and international facts and news with you - some really interesting stuff that I think will help ease concerns!

Last week the following article was posted in the New Mexican - a stellar account of how in one week EcoTourism can powerfully impact a community - please take a moment to read this article!
The link is below but I have also attached a quote:

"Ecotourism for Socorro County is directly linked to the refuge. Socorro County is the second-poorest county in New Mexico and the Festival of the Cranes, held annually at Bosque del Apache, is its single greatest income-generating event. Revenue from registered attendees of the 2004 festival was $51,432, and the economic benefit to the local area was estimated to be $2.2 million over the six days of the event. Visitor recreation expenditures in the counties of Socorro, Bernalillo, and Sierra totaled
$13.9 million, of which $13.7 million came from nonresidents resulting from visits to the refuge. The total tax revenue generated by refuge recreation visits was $4.3 million for the region. Local economic effects associated with recreational visits to the refuge totaled more $20.3 million in the local counties."
Karyn Stockdale and Leigh Ann Vradenburg
Posted: Thursday, November 19, 2009
http://www.santafenewmexican.com/Opinion/-Com...

Secondly - the other thing we would lie to point out is what came up against at our last workshop in Chama where there is a very large ranching/hunting community. We are NOT anti hunting - as avid conservationists we have always believed in the value of ethical hunting and most ranchers and hunters are die hard conservationists - protecting their resources and preserving and protecting vast tracts of land is an immense and daunting task and one which we are wholly supportive of. We have offered up our help and advice in how to turn a 3 month hunting business into a year round business that supports both ecotourism, conservation and hunting.

So finally I would like to finish up with a credible example and am very happy to provide anyone with references on the following...almost 12 years ago we started working with Australian cattle and sheep farmers whose livelihood had been decimated by international wool markets s well as lack of demand for their livestock. We offered up similar workshops throughout the Outback of Australia and we met with ALOT of resistance - we were called bunny-huggers, roo-lovers...you name it but the simple fact is this the Eco tourism business on these private lands in the middle of nowhere in Australia is today a thriving and lucrative business providing year round income for properties that were either facing foreclosure or could not pay school fees. Eco Tourism enabled many hunting properties to be open year round and to capture additional revenues. We are proud to count some of these Australian ranchers as some of our dearest friends in the world.

Which brings me to my last and final point (promise)... this is as much about community building and partnering as it is about bringing EcoTourism into our State. EcoTourists stay longer (7-10 days versus 3 days in only Santa Fe or Taos), they spend alot more money and leave only a light footprint behind - they are engaged and well educated and would sit enthralled on any of your Silver City debates!

Granted EcoTourism is not for everyone but the economic impacts long term WILL be felt by EVERYONE and we look forward to meeting you all and continuing lively discussions.

See you in a few days!

MitchHellman wrote:

<quoted text>
I want to make sure that everybody understands that I was being facetious when I wrote the above.
I strongly believe that tourism is essential to the economic well-being of our area. We have at best 20 years of mining left before we're played out, and farming and ranching barely supports the farmers and ranchers. As I've been saying for some time, you don't have to look very far to see what happens to a town that didn't have a Plan B.
I operate a business that is in demand by both tourists and local alike. I'm open seven days a week, and seven *nights* a week, too. And I'm not alone; Silver City MainStreet recently distributed a flyer that lists 32 downtown businesses that are open on Sunday. It's not easy for a business to do this, especially if it's a small family-owned one... but I find that it's worth doing.
What burns me up is that our Chamber of Commerce can't seem to find consistent volunteers to keep the Visitor Center open on Sundays. It's especially bad when tourists come over from Arizona during Daylight Savings Time; Arizona doesn't follow DST, so when they cross the border into NM, it's an hour later than they thought-- and most of those businesses they were counting on are already closed.
At any rate, if you believe, as I do, that tourism in general and eco-tourism in particular is has the potential to be a useful revenue source for our area, then you should attend the workshop mentioned in the original article... and if you're disturbed/concerned/scared by the prospect of more people coming to see what we have to offer, you should attend as well so that your voice is heard.

mitch why don't you send a volunteer over on sunday and be part of the solution, how bout supporting what your chamber DOES provide your town in a tough economy