On Religion, Abortion, and Politics: Dr. George Tiller's Christian Ethics

"Both Catholics and the religious right like to frame abortion, in their public rhetoric, as a war between Christians and atheists, believers against secularists."

Ain't THAT the truth!

"Abortion is not simply a moral issue; it has been very highly politicized by groups who have much larger motivations and agendas than abortion itself."

"Salvation is something God does for us, not something we can do for God."

"Luther saw the Bible as absolutely authoritative concerning the gospel, but detailed legal prescriptions in the Bible were for the people of that time. For Luther, ethical imperatives come from each person’s direct relationship with God (strange as that concept is for many people today)."

"Those in the religious right like to try to claim that they find prohibition against abortion in the Bible, but it is obvious that the people of that time had no detailed knowledge of the reproductive process. There is no convincing argument from the Bible about abortion."

"It must be recognized that the South was forced to dramatically change its patterns of discrimination and segregation by the federal government. The Supreme Court had forced school integration in 1954. White churches set up their own religious schools rather than send their children to integrated public schools. This is the origin of the hatred of the religious right for public education which continues today."

In 1973 the Supreme Court, the same Supreme Court, made abortion legal. The white South already hated the Supreme Court, now it had another issue to fight about: abortion. It turned out to be a handy emotional issue, one which gave Southern religion a sense of moral superiority over Northern liberals who had forced integration upon the South.

"It is time for the religious leaders to stop using inflammatory language in public. The Pope himself has stopped trying to get an anti-abortion law passed in Italy; the people there just will not do so. The only reason the Catholic Church is making such a political effort in the United States is the political presence of the religious right with its central energy coming from a racist history. That is not a good partner for Catholics.

It is time to stop terrorizing the minds and hearts of the people over abortion."

Another stupid Lutheran.

CatholicPatriot wrote:

Another stupid Lutheran.

yeah, love it when the xtians share the love.

I'll refer to another topic-thread, but this is another on the list of reaosns why the young are leaving the churches...the never-ending feud between the sects.

its such a great recruiting tool. "come to our church where we hate and otherwise criticize other sects for some silly interpretation differences..." yeah! religion F'n rocks!

North and South? When did abortion become a north/south thing? The Moral Majority kicked off their "pro-life" campaign in Washington D.C. with their friend,(or so they thought,) Ronald Reagan. The modern KKK movement emanated from New Jersey after the turn of the century. Also, it wasn't just southern schools that were integrated.

How many major race riots have you heard of in the south in the last 100 years? Not as many as in Michigan, Illinois, New york, L.A., and Pennsylvania. Race and abortion are not "southern" issues. Evangelical Christian zealotry is also not solely relegated to the south. What about all those evangelical short bus-tards in Colorado?

The whole abortion argument is a hamster wheel. We will never outlaw abortion, because no one wants a return to the problems we had when it was illegal. It is just an emotional hot button issue that keeps us fighting amongst ourselves, so as to keep the pressure off the guys that are stealing all the money and our civil liberties at the same time.

Besides, why are social conservatives so concerned about unborn, unwanted babies? They sure don't give a crap about them after they are born.

SLAUGHTER IN THE NAME OF GOD !

In our terrorist fearing world, religion is the poison in the mind of the terrorist.

Where religion intervenes, mere innocence is no protection from mass destruction.

Yet we go on skating around this issue, speaking of religion in the fashionable language of 'respect.'

What is there to respect in any of this.

From a pope forbidding condom use to avoid HIV, to murder for promoting women's right to choose, to any of the other crimes now being committed almost daily around the world in religion's deadly name?

RELIGION RUINS EVERY THING!

Light Sensitive wrote:

"Abortion is not simply a moral issue; it has been very highly politicized by groups who have much larger motivations and agendas than abortion itself."
"Salvation is something God does for us, not something we can do for God."
"Luther saw the Bible as absolutely authoritative concerning the gospel, but detailed legal prescriptions in the Bible were for the people of that time. For Luther, ethical imperatives come from each person’s direct relationship with God (strange as that concept is for many people today)."
"Those in the religious right like to try to claim that they find prohibition against abortion in the Bible, but it is obvious that the people of that time had no detailed knowledge of the reproductive process. There is no convincing argument from the Bible about abortion."

Is there a reason why you do not quote the original author?

http://www.religiondispatches.org/archive/rel... 's_christian_ethics/?page=2

Light Sensitive wrote:

"It must be recognized that the South was forced to dramatically change its patterns of discrimination and segregation by the federal government. The Supreme Court had forced school integration in 1954. White churches set up their own religious schools rather than send their children to integrated public schools. This is the origin of the hatred of the religious right for public education which continues today."
In 1973 the Supreme Court, the same Supreme Court, made abortion legal. The white South already hated the Supreme Court, now it had another issue to fight about: abortion. It turned out to be a handy emotional issue, one which gave Southern religion a sense of moral superiority over Northern liberals who had forced integration upon the South.
"It is time for the religious leaders to stop using inflammatory language in public. The Pope himself has stopped trying to get an anti-abortion law passed in Italy; the people there just will not do so. The only reason the Catholic Church is making such a political effort in the United States is the political presence of the religious right with its central energy coming from a racist history. That is not a good partner for Catholics.
It is time to stop terrorizing the minds and hearts of the people over abortion."

Again:

http://www.religiondispatches.org/archive/rel... 's_christian_ethics/?page=3

Philster wrote:

North and South? When did abortion become a north/south thing? The Moral Majority kicked off their "pro-life" campaign in Washington D.C. with their friend,(or so they thought,) Ronald Reagan. The modern KKK movement emanated from New Jersey after the turn of the century. Also, it wasn't just southern schools that were integrated.
How many major race riots have you heard of in the south in the last 100 years? Not as many as in Michigan, Illinois, New york, L.A., and Pennsylvania. Race and abortion are not "southern" issues. Evangelical Christian zealotry is also not solely relegated to the south. What about all those evangelical short bus-tards in Colorado?
The whole abortion argument is a hamster wheel. We will never outlaw abortion, because no one wants a return to the problems we had when it was illegal. It is just an emotional hot button issue that keeps us fighting amongst ourselves, so as to keep the pressure off the guys that are stealing all the money and our civil liberties at the same time.
Besides, why are social conservatives so concerned about unborn, unwanted babies? They sure don't give a crap about them after they are born.

..." no one wants a return to the problems we had when it was illegal...

And what "problems" were those?
Before you respond, were those "problems", as grievous as the wholesale slaughter of 50 million infant fetus's?

Light Sensitive wrote:

<quoted text>
yeah, love it when the xtians share the love.
I'll refer to another topic-thread, but this is another on the list of reaosns why the young are leaving the churches...the never-ending feud between the sects.
its such a great recruiting tool. "come to our church where we hate and otherwise criticize other sects for some silly interpretation differences..." yeah! religion F'n rocks!

The differences between Catholics and Protestants cannot be considered silly interpretation differences. The differences are quite significant. BTW; the Catholic church continues to grow in this country and worldwide.

Maybe the Lutheran pastor can explain why abortion is condemned in the Didache.

I don't understand this issue; We damn the man that killed the killer of innocent babies.
Why isn't the baby killer held responsibe for the murders he is responsible for? He kills babies that CAN'T defend themselves [and] society sees this as okay?
And, you can kill the unborn but you can't kill the suffering/dying?
Our society is really screwed up.

CatholicPatriot wrote:

Maybe the Lutheran pastor can explain why abortion is condemned in the Didache.

so is Pharmakeia (medicine) damn witchs

Agent 99-1 wrote:

I don't understand this issue; We damn the man that killed the killer of innocent babies.
Why isn't the baby killer held responsibe for the murders he is responsible for? He kills babies that CAN'T defend themselves [and] society sees this as okay?
And, you can kill the unborn but you can't kill the suffering/dying?
Our society is really screwed up.

Yes. The children of our society are being indoctrinated in the same doctrines Adolf Hitler was indoctrinated in. It appears we haven't learned anything from the past.

Agent 99-1 wrote:

I don't understand this issue; We damn the man that killed the killer of innocent babies.
Why isn't the baby killer held responsibe for the murders he is responsible for? He kills babies that CAN'T defend themselves [and] society sees this as okay?
And, you can kill the unborn but you can't kill the suffering/dying?
Our society is really screwed up.

Simple society does not see abortion as murder.

Most Christians are against putting people down that are suffering/dying as well. Remember what George bush did to keep a comatose woman on life support even after 15 years.Terri Schiavo, 41, has been in a persistent vegetative state since a cardiac arrest sent her into a coma in 1990.

CatholicPatriot wrote:

<quoted text>
Yes. The children of our society are being indoctrinated in the same doctrines Adolf Hitler was indoctrinated in. It appears we haven't learned anything from the past.

Which is why America has begun to repeat the dark mistakes of past.
And it is going to get real ugly very soon.

CatholicPatriot wrote:

<quoted text>
The differences between Catholics and Protestants cannot be considered silly interpretation differences. The differences are quite significant. BTW; the Catholic church continues to grow in this country and worldwide.

Have you a credible link to show that the Catholic church continues to grow.

Sure the Catholic church is growing, but only in the third world. South America and east Asia are experiencing growth in the Catholic church. Poor, scared, superstitious third world people are lining up in droves.