Luscombe Aircraft - Quartz Mountain Aerospace

Yea, probably a great idea for those of use who they owe money to! I know for sure the Department of Labor will be there, do you ever think we will ever get our money?:-(

Tickedoffluscombeinvestor wrote:

In looking over this document listing the QMA assets I notice that over $550,000 worth of stuff that they moved to or bought in Coffeyville is blacked out. Does that mean that all those tools and equipment are being held for ransom by the city of Coffeyville? I've been told by people who know that a good part of those tools and pieces of equipment would be necessary to anyone wanting to restart the QMA 11E line. So if someone were to come to the bankruptcy auction and purchase what they thought was the whole shebang, would they then learn that they'd have to go ransom the rest of the equipment in Coffeyville? And what is up with the QMA 11E TC? Will that go at auction? I know a fellow who thought he was buying the TC of another aircraft at auction along with all the parts, tools, equipment, etc. Turns out the TC to that aircraft is still tied up in bankruptcy court and so far at least, he's got nothing, because the FAA won't let him proceed with his plans until the ownership of the TC is decided. I would not want that to happen to someone who comes to the QMA bankruptcy auction.
I've never understood why Mark and Max moved all that stuff to Coffeyville (unless it was for personal gain) in the first place. They negotiated with the city of Coffeyville without the board of directors' approval or knowledge, and certainly without the approval of the city of Altus, to whom QMA owed so much for so long. It was a slap in the face to the people of Altus. And so unecessary. The board should have fired Mark for that right then, and prevented all those assets from leaving the state of Oklahoma.
Well, the bankruptcy hearing is going to be on 21 Dec in Lawton. I'd suggest that anyone who ever had anything to do with QMA attend and ask lots of questions.
I suspect the FBI, among others, will be there.

Hi again Former Employee,

Several of us have talked to lawyers, bankers, and other people in the know. They all say that the people who are owed money by QMA, like you Former Employee, will probably get just pennies on the dollar if you get anything. First National Bank, and the other "secured" creditors will get first crack at any money. What is left over will go to pay other debts. At least that is the way I understand it. So you, and we, will not come out very well, most likely. For one thing, I'm sure you've noticed that the company is claiming 30 million dollars in assets. I don't know where they got those figures, if they had to use retail figures by law, or if they were just dreaming them up, but several people with many years watching the aircraft industry have told me that the Type Certificate will most likely go for less than 1.5 million dollars....and they are claiming it is worth 16 million. They say the QMA copyrighted name is worth $50,000. I don't believe that, either. Why would anyone even want a name that carries so much baggage? I've been told by a former employee high up in the company, that knows about equipment and its cost, that Mark and Max were taken to the cleaners on some of the items they bought in Coffeyville...so I wouldn't expect those items to bring near as much as they paid for them. Nobody knows what an auction will bring until it is over, but I'd be very surprised if at auction the assets of QMA bring even half what they are evaluated at. Mark already spent all the money..on gift baskets for hourly Cessna employees, from what I've heard. Didn't I hear that he gave a $5,000 sign on bonus to someone from Cessna after they hadn't been able to pay the workers they already had for weeks? Jeez Louise. I think Mark really believed Paul and Don were going to come up with "up to 120 million" for QMA. Those of us who've been to the rodeo a few times know better.
I know a number of former QMA employees, vendors and others associated with QMA are having a hard time. We all have to work hard to get our lives put back together and get this bad interval behind us. I am having a hard time forgiving the board of directors, Paul, Don, Mark, et al for ruining what could have been a very nice and profitable company, but I am working on it. Of course, since they destroyed my retirement, I'll be working for the next 20 years trying to recover what I've lost.

It's ashamed that we get paid last. I thought for sure we would at least get 50% of what they owed. Mark gave a lot of money to a lot of people. Was there really a need to pay for their living arrangements, utilities, even pots and pans, bedding, bathroom accessories?? NO, there wasn't. Then when those people would complain about their electric being cut off because QMA didn't pay they expected us to feel sorry for them. What about the people such as myself that didn't get a penny and still haven’t, not even the checks at xmas last year that Mark picked and chose whom he wanted. What about us that got stuff cut off because he didn't pay us. I have no sorry feelings for the Kansas people. They should’ve never complained once about there pay nor complain about their living arrangements they had it made!!!!!!!

Tickedoffluscombeinvestor wrote:

Hi again Former Employee,
Several of us have talked to lawyers, bankers, and other people in the know. They all say that the people who are owed money by QMA, like you Former Employee, will probably get just pennies on the dollar if you get anything. First National Bank, and the other "secured" creditors will get first crack at any money. What is left over will go to pay other debts. At least that is the way I understand it. So you, and we, will not come out very well, most likely. For one thing, I'm sure you've noticed that the company is claiming 30 million dollars in assets. I don't know where they got those figures, if they had to use retail figures by law, or if they were just dreaming them up, but several people with many years watching the aircraft industry have told me that the Type Certificate will most likely go for less than 1.5 million dollars....and they are claiming it is worth 16 million. They say the QMA copyrighted name is worth $50,000. I don't believe that, either. Why would anyone even want a name that carries so much baggage? I've been told by a former employee high up in the company, that knows about equipment and its cost, that Mark and Max were taken to the cleaners on some of the items they bought in Coffeyville...so I wouldn't expect those items to bring near as much as they paid for them. Nobody knows what an auction will bring until it is over, but I'd be very surprised if at auction the assets of QMA bring even half what they are evaluated at. Mark already spent all the money..on gift baskets for hourly Cessna employees, from what I've heard. Didn't I hear that he gave a $5,000 sign on bonus to someone from Cessna after they hadn't been able to pay the workers they already had for weeks? Jeez Louise. I think Mark really believed Paul and Don were going to come up with "up to 120 million" for QMA. Those of us who've been to the rodeo a few times know better.
I know a number of former QMA employees, vendors and others associated with QMA are having a hard time. We all have to work hard to get our lives put back together and get this bad interval behind us. I am having a hard time forgiving the board of directors, Paul, Don, Mark, et al for ruining what could have been a very nice and profitable company, but I am working on it. Of course, since they destroyed my retirement, I'll be working for the next 20 years trying to recover what I've lost.

Hi Former Employee,

I had lunch with a Cessna Independence guy yesterday, he is pretty high up in the company there. He confirmed what I already knew, that the reason Max could never get a promotion at Cessna was because he was such a pain in the butt nobody wanted to work with him (I've heard this from a number of people). I've always thought it was odd that Max stayed in the same low level job at Cessna for over 10 years, or however long he worked there, even with a civil engineering degree. We've always wondered why Bob Tooley was so high on Max and have decided that with his brain tumor Bob just wasn't thinking clearly. I've been told I met Max a couple of times before I actually remember him. He was just one of the masses to me until I had to actually spend some time with him and then I remember thinking----Who the heck is this guy? Does he ever shut up?
You and all the people who had to try to work for him have my deepest sympathy. He had no experience managing people, he knows very little about the aircraft industry, and almost nothing about production. Amazing how he and Mark hit it off so well, isn't it?
This same guy I had lunch with was talking about some of the horror stories he had heard about Mark, through the grapevine. I don't think Mark has ever understood how small the aircraft industry is...everybody knows what everybody else is doing. All Mark's secrecy only made people more curious. He really thought he could keep what he was doing secret, I think, about the differences in wages, special treatment for Cessna hourly workers. You have to question Mark's claim to be experienced in business management. I can't see anything that he did right at QMA. And I'm told he is likely to see some jail time over the withholding fiasco. He had to know better than to do what he did and get the Feds worked up.
I'm going to hope for the best but I don't think anybody is going to see much money. The bank and the other secured lender that have collateral will get their money first. In this poor economy I doubt anybody is going to step forward and pay big bucks for assets of a company with so much scandal and baggage attached. That is only my opinion, I don't have a clue what will actually happen, and I do hope for the best. I would like to see everyone from workers to vendors to the city of Altus get everything owed to them by Quartz Mountain aerospace.

Has anyone heard the rumor that the numbers given to the bankruptcy court do not add up? I have heard that "so called secured creditors" amount is being padded at $15,000,000 instead of the number that was initially under $3,000,000! How are we to be sure this woman with the books isn't being given a kickback to cook the books. We know the power of this group when it comes to fraud. Any input?

Hi again Skidmark,

I have not heard that rumor. I have been a trustee, however, and I can tell you that there are all sorts of oversights. The appointed lawyer trustee probably had to be bonded, and with so many state and federal organizations watching (FBI, Labor board, FDIC, etc) the proceedings, I feel sure that every penny will be accounted for. The two secured creditors and what they are owed by QMA are a matter of public record, I don't think any other secured creditors have come forward. I beleive the rumor is just that, an unsubstantiated rumor. The people who attended the bankruptcy hearing thought the trustee was upfront about what was happening, and she did offer to meet with people to answer more questions and keep everyone informed.
I was very pleased to learn that the equipment in Coffeyville will be brought back and included in the auction. And that the FDIC had given her permission to include the Type Certificate in the auction, so if someone wants to bid on the whole package, they will be getting everything. That is good.
I do not know where the QMA folks came up with the figures they listed as valuations on the equipment and other items. I think the valuation they gave for the TC was wishful thinking. For the equipment they probably used the retail price. I guess we'll just watch and see what happens at the auction. I would be delighted if the auction brought in enough to pay off everyone owed, but that is just wishful thinking on my part.

From what I understand, if someone was to come in and buy everything, it is better for us..... Buying items individually could hurt us, possibly not get any money from it all, at least if someone buys everything (highly doubt it though) we could be looking at something in return? Is that your understanding? When is this auction? I have received so many letters from Attourney's that to be honest, I toss them everytime I see them. It still sickens me to think how loyal many of us were to QMA then we get kicked in the butt. Do you know about the checks that were given to a certain few in December of 2008, are they getting into trouble for that?(Not the employees but Mark) I know taxes were not taken out and I had heard the IRS was investigating, which that was months ago......What will or if anything happen to Mark? When I seeked an attourney he said that since Mark told us we had insurance, we could sue him personally..... I have only seen a couple of people sue him directly. Just curious :-)

Tickedoffluscombeinvestor wrote:

Hi again Skidmark,
I have not heard that rumor. I have been a trustee, however, and I can tell you that there are all sorts of oversights. The appointed lawyer trustee probably had to be bonded, and with so many state and federal organizations watching (FBI, Labor board, FDIC, etc) the proceedings, I feel sure that every penny will be accounted for. The two secured creditors and what they are owed by QMA are a matter of public record, I don't think any other secured creditors have come forward. I beleive the rumor is just that, an unsubstantiated rumor. The people who attended the bankruptcy hearing thought the trustee was upfront about what was happening, and she did offer to meet with people to answer more questions and keep everyone informed.
I was very pleased to learn that the equipment in Coffeyville will be brought back and included in the auction. And that the FDIC had given her permission to include the Type Certificate in the auction, so if someone wants to bid on the whole package, they will be getting everything. That is good.
I do not know where the QMA folks came up with the figures they listed as valuations on the equipment and other items. I think the valuation they gave for the TC was wishful thinking. For the equipment they probably used the retail price. I guess we'll just watch and see what happens at the auction. I would be delighted if the auction brought in enough to pay off everyone owed, but that is just wishful thinking on my part.

I have tried on several occasions to access the bankruptcy documentation on the Oklahoma website. Does anyone know where to get a hold of the paperwork filed by QMA? Also, has anyone heard that Mark was caught in South Dallas wearing "If you mess with me you mess with the whole trailer park!" t-shirt?

Come on folks. Don't get your skivies in a wad about the value of assets listed in the bankruptcy petition. The asset values used in any bankruptcy filing are required by the court to establish a baseline. The only values that count are those a willing buyer will pay for them in an open market or at auction. In this case the TC value supplied to the court was based on a fair market value established well before the markets crashed. The other assets are listed at historical cost.

You are right okiedater, but my concern is all the people who are really hoping the auction will bring enough to pay all the debts, the back wages, etc. Not realistic. Sure would be nice, tho'. I guess it will be interesting to get a report of the auction and who bought what and what they plan to do with it. Sure would be nice if someone would start up the line again, but there is a lot more competition now than there was six or seven years ago. The Cessna Sky Catcher for one, but there are others. Just too bad, a lot of good people were badly hurt by the whole mess. Makes me sad for everyone. Except Mark, of course.

All true. Sadly, the only way the good people (empoloyees) will see any return is if the TC, and everything related to it, are sold to one party. If assets are sold separately, the high bidder will be a scrap dealer. The newspapers have had it wrong in recent reports: Investors are SOL. Befor invenstors see a penny back, all employees, taxes and suppliers will be paid in full.

HI Okiedater,

I missed those newspaper reports. I think all the stockholders know they are left out of the feeding frenzy. I've owned a small amount of stock in two other companies that went belly up. One filed Chapter 11, and the 100 shares I paid $700 for turned into one share worth 10 cents. The other company filed chapter 7, and my 1500 shares just went away. I expect that is what what has happened with my thousands of shares of QMA. Shareholders are dreaming if they think their shares still have any value whatsoever. I personally tried to warn the stockholders and board members about what was happening to the company while there was still time to remedy the situation. Nobody listened, so I am just Cassandra crying into the wind. Bye, bye money. But am now ready to move onward and upward, time to try to recoup my losses in other ways. Probably will hide my money under the mattress instead of investing in any more small companies with a clueless board of directors.

Has anyone heard that Mark Arqueerio's wife, Joan is Vice President of Development for a company called "Creating & Managing Wealth LLC" out of Irving, Texas? Their "vision" is of clients having a financially secured retirement for the full length of their lives, where all possible challenges are prepared for and met! If you want to know more you can go to their website at http://www.cmwfinancial.com/ and get a good laugh.
If you want to see Mark you might stand outside the building and watch him walk up and down the sidewalk with his "I will work for food" sign. That would be a good time to throw a can of green beans (can be any vegetable)at him and yell, "There you go!"

I wonder what lies she told them....

Skidmarksux1 wrote:

Has anyone heard that Mark Arqueerio's wife, Joan is Vice President of Development for a company called "Creating & Managing Wealth LLC" out of Irving, Texas? Their "vision" is of clients having a financially secured retirement for the full length of their lives, where all possible challenges are prepared for and met! If you want to know more you can go to their website at http://www.cmwfinancial.com/ and get a good laugh.
If you want to see Mark you might stand outside the building and watch him walk up and down the sidewalk with his "I will work for food" sign. That would be a good time to throw a can of green beans (can be any vegetable)at him and yell, "There you go!"

Former Employee wrote:

I wonder what lies she told them....
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anyone know anything about if and when we are getting our W-2s?

Former Employee wrote:

From what I understand, if someone was to come in and buy everything, it is better for us..... Buying items individually could hurt us, possibly not get any money from it all, at least if someone buys everything (highly doubt it though) we could be looking at something in return? Is that your understanding? When is this auction? I have received so many letters from Attourney's that to be honest, I toss them everytime I see them. It still sickens me to think how loyal many of us were to QMA then we get kicked in the butt. Do you know about the checks that were given to a certain few in December of 2008, are they getting into trouble for that?(Not the employees but Mark) I know taxes were not taken out and I had heard the IRS was investigating, which that was months ago......What will or if anything happen to Mark? When I seeked an attourney he said that since Mark told us we had insurance, we could sue him personally..... I have only seen a couple of people sue him directly. Just curious :-)
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i didnt know that we could.. my wife had a root canal and porcelain and had to pay 1000 back cause they lied about our insurance!!! makes me mad..worked even when everyone else was getting unemployment and still hadnt got anything..i hope mark has trouble seeping at night and he will get was is owed to him..not by me but by someone bigger than us all

Hi all, I did take a look at the web site where Joan is working. I say good for her. When I met Joan right before she and Mark moved to Altus, she was in a program to learn how to be a financial advisor. Managing money is not the same as managing a company. Joan was never employed by QMA was she? Maybe I am missing something, but I do not hold her responsible for all of Mark's shenanigans. In fact, he is so paranoid and secretive, I'll bet she knew nothing about what he was doing until it came out on the newspaper. Correct me if I am wrong. I figure a woman has a right to support herself. If this place where she is working is the group Mark told us about, then she has been involved with them for quite some time while she got her credentials. I really don't think Joan had anything to do with the downfall of Quartz Mountain Aerospace, did she? I've heard tell that her dog is criminally stinky, but other than that have not heard anything bad about her. I don't think the IRS, FBI, Labor board or any other agencies are looking at Joan, are they? And to tell the truth, I don't think Mark ruined the company on purpose. I think it was the best job he ever had hope of landing, and he was in over his head. The stuff with the withholding was stupid, but I can even see how he was so sure the "up to 120 million $$" was coming any day, that he thought he'd be able to get everything paid up before the feds noticed it hadn't been paid in. The board of directors are the real culprits...they hired a guy without looking into his background and gave him carte blanche to run amok...which he did from day one.
The aircraft business is like no other, and very few people outside the industry can understand that. QMA's board of directors certainly does not.
Jeez, I wish I could help everyone who was hurt by QMA. Unfortuately my twice weekly quest to win the Powerball lottery has come up short once again. Maybe next time.

Hey Ticked...Just to clarify a couple of points: Go back (if you can stand it) and read the stories in the Constitution and ATD about the creditor meeting in December. You will see they both refer to the priority of payment as secured creditors, investors and employees, or something like that. "Investors" was definitely mentioned. The other point: Although I got a great chuckle from your "criminally stinky" reference, I believe the pooch is Mark's soulmate.

Guy Ginbey wrote:

As a vendor , we have not received on a payment for materials we sent them to build aircraft...

join the club they owe me over 76,000

You worked there in 2009? If you did, you didn't get any money so therefore I wouldn't think you would even get a w-2.....

Alex wrote:

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anyone know anything about if and when we are getting our W-2s?