Pesticides suspected in fish kill Toxic waters Dozens of fish k...

Yes I am in fact getting pretty good at cutting and pasting well resourced information that supports "The Trail Gazette" and their courageous stand against the madness of spraying a pesticide that is already banned in most "educated" countries.

At least the Trail Gazette editor has the guts (unlike yourself) to use his real name and tries to warn the public about the now well-published dangers of "Carbaryl" exposure.

The facts I posted CLEARLY support the story as being both "believable & credible" certainly in terms of the reported and well-documented damage done to Leta, her property, and the wildlife that was there.

The most concerning part of which was that the applicator stood in her stream spraying "Carbaryl" that runs directly into our Town drinking water supply ~ A town water supply that has never been tested for the presence of "Carbaryl" (or its other companion and dangerous chemical "inert" ingredients) even though most of our water comes from Grand Lake, Colorado which is known far and wide at "the mother of all beetle kill areas" and an area that has been DOUSED with more "Carbaryl" than anywhere else in our state ~ Got your attention yet???

In addition Larimer County at large has never tested for "Carbaryl" in the water supplies & only last year did "John Scott" our head pesticide guy at the Colorado State Department of Agriculture authorize a grab sample to be taken that revealed a .05 parts per billion concentration (((somewhere))) in our state the water supply when .03 parts per billion or better is considered dangerous to humans and other living things.

Your statement (( "until one of these applicators is investigated and hit with a fine for misusing the product they aren't doing anything illegal" )) is ridiculous & off topic.

The reason I posted the Colorado State Pesticide laws is to show readers just how complicated they are to understand... Let alone enforce.

In the greater public interest I am posting my witness statement to the Colorado Department of Agriculture regarding a "miss" (pun intended) application of Carbaryl next door to my property that negatively affected the health & safety of the two pesticide applicators involved as well as my wife & two young children, our pets, our tenants + their pets & the public at large. I am leaving out the name of the company involved because the matter is under investigation.

MY STATEMENT TO THE DOA

I witnessed two pesticide spraying company workers applying Carbaryl spray to my neighbors’ property to the west of me.

The following behaviors of the two workers concerned me:

· Neither worker was wearing chemically resistant headgear while spraying pesticide directly over their heads ~ both were wearing regular ball caps
· Neither worker was wearing chemically shielded eye or face protection while spraying the tall trees directly overhead and being rained on by the pesticide ~ both were wearing simple sunglasses that exposed big wedges of skin between their respirators and their sunglasses + also left their ears exposed directly to this drenching pesticide rain.
· Both workers had their spray suit sleeves rolled up to their elbows and their suit zippers zipped down to below their breasts exposing their neck areas and forearms to the drenching pesticide spray ~ I think because it was so hot!
· One worker sprayed the other worker on the exposed skin of his face, ears, neck, chest, & arms (by accident when he was finishing spraying a tall tree) although both workers were being almost continually drenched on their exposed skin.
· There was wind blowing when they were spraying that I observed carrying large drifts of pesticide onto or over the property to the west of the property being targeted by the workers ~ what concerns me is I did not see the beginning of the spray operations & know the wind can shift from one second to the next in mountain conditions
· I had Kids, Pets, Tenants, an organic garden, an open pond for wildlife drinking and personal swimming purposes, in the yard and laundry hanging out on the line when Kincaid began spraying WITH NO WARNING AT ALL to any of us that we should bring the kids in, bring the pets in, bring the laundry in, close our windows, turn of ventilation fans, etc…
· Even a 5-minute warning would have allowed me to get my family, our pets, my tenants, & their pets inside and out of danger…
· A brief 15-minute warning would have allowed me to protect (cover) our pond, our organic garden & bring in the laundry off the line.
· Our flowering flower garden was well populated with honeybees before and during the application in question and have been absent since…
· The workers wound up spraying the target trees, non target trees, the buildings on the property, the decks, patio furniture, the steps, the hand rails, the driveway, the ground (to clean out the spray gun I assume), the propane tank, the neighbor to the west’s property (due to wind drift), possibly my property (due to wind drift) their truck & last but not least each other.
· No washing of ANY of the above occurred after the application was finished
· Our whole family had headaches and sore throats the day after the application in question and the strong odor of pesticide was present three days after the application.

MY STATEMENT CONTINUED...

Later that week I filmed the same two workers engaging in the same behavior right up the road.

· Not wearing proper protective equipment (probably the same unwashed ball caps & merely wiped sunglasses while spraying overhead.
· Spraying around unwarned and or unprotected citizens and pets
· Spraying in wind that caused the pesticide they were spraying to drift well away from the targeted trees
· Spraying each other
· Spraying patio furniture, decks, customer buildings & vehicles with pesticide then and not washing it off exposing the customers to direct contact to the pesticide when they opened their car doors, sat on their patio furniture, or walked on their decks allowing for cross contamination into their homes.

It is in the interest of both health + safety for his workers as well as the public at large that this Kincaid employer be compelled to properly equip & train all of his workers + follow the Colorado label law to see that pesticide misuses of this nature do not occur through the actions of his employees ever again.

Included in this mailing are pictures of our open water pond with elk drinking along with pictures of our family, tenants, pets, organic garden, & flowering flower garden (minus the bees) that have been negatively affected by Kincaid and his two workers.

Thank you for you professional attention in this matter + please feel free to contact me with any questions you may have.

PS: I believe that the filmed incident mentioned and provided in this mailing supports my testimony in this matter and that you may want to treat the filmed incident not only as an “offer of proof” as to the behaviors of these to employees and their employer in this incident under investigation by the DOA but as evidence along with many witness statements for a whole new incident and investigation for a lot of good common sense reasons that I assume I need not spell out to people of your educational background.

PPS: For the record I request a complete listing of all the chemicals (active & inert) present in the applicators pesticide formulation that they applied to the neighbors property under license from the DOA, so that I may insure the safety of my family by getting our well water & soils tested for said known “active” ingredients as well as the unknown “inert ingredients in the pesticide formula, because if I cant tell the lab what to look for… they cant test for it and I will be left unable to assure my family that they are not being FURTHER exposed to the dangers of this dangerous pesticide formulation.~ Thanks in advance for this necessary critical information that we need to protect ourselves from these DOA “licensed applications” of dangerous mountain pine beetle pesticides that are occurring around us, by having our well water + soils fully tested for all possible contaminants these applications may have left behind in their wakes.

END OF MY STATEMENT

HOW TO FILE A COMPLAINT WITH THE STATE DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE IF YOU WITNESS PESTICIDE APPLICATORS BEHAVING BADLY

If one wants to file a complaint about an applicator...

Call the Colorado State Department of Agriculture in Lakewood, Colorado and ask to speak with John Scott or Matt Lopez.

Spraying trees overhead without chemical resistant head gear... or you saw a cloud of pesticide drift across a property line... or I saw a worker standing in a stream spraying pesticide that runs into the town drinking water and is killing wildlife as Lita did are all good reasons to phone these guys that we are paying our tax dollars to keep us safe from the misapplication of pesticides.

Try to get the name of the product that was being applied and get a copy of the label from the manufacture website and include warning information from that label as it relates to your complaint because Colorado is a "label law state" that trusts the manufacturer and their labels to protect us from the deadly hazards these poisons threaten us all with (((especially our children))).

NOT NIOSH, NOT OSHA, NOT THE EPA to dictate what is safe or not safe... legal or not legal... for workers to apply the poison & for us as average citizens to be exposed too... The manufacturer.

THIS IS LIKE THE FOX BEING ASKED TO GUARD THE CHICKEN COOP!!!

BUT... if you do not include warning language from the manufacturers label your complaint is a lot harder for John & Scott to prosecute to the fullest extent of the law in order to protect all of us & believe you me they have their hands full with this issue and can use all the help they can get!!!

Also important is to take video of the incident you are reporting because (need I say it?) " A picture is worth a thousand words.

Videotapes of clouds of pesticide being blown off the spray site is very helpful to John & Scott alone with their field investigators although that is not always an easy thing to remember when you and your kids are being sprayed with deadly poison.

That’s it for now although I will cut and paste more well documented safety information to help my fellow citizens protect themselves from these illegal pesticide applicators until we can all get them under control with the help of John Scott & Matt Lopez from our Colorado State Department of Agriculture, our local law enforcement agencies, city governments, and just regular old citizens like you and me who are not afraid to use there real names when they speak up & out against the poisoning of our State, people, and wildlife.

Please feel free to post any questions you may have here and I will try to answer them for you.

Thank you all for your consideration in this important matter.

Thomas Edgcomb Booth

While reading through some of these posts I felt compelled to enter a comment. I am very familiar with the efforts currently ongoing to prevent tree loss from beetle infestation as well as what has already happened in other parts of the State.
As some of the original posters have stated, I think the article in the paper was rubbish. A very good opportunity to have an honest discussion regarding what is likely to be a reality in the Estes Park area for the next 3-5 years was missed by creating a piece of tabloid paranoia. There is absolutely no way that birds could have "rained from the sky". I would challenge anyone to approach a tree full of birds with a garden hose and see if you can get within 10' before they all fly away. What we should be doing is writing articles describing the facts, the real risks of these pesticides, and the long-term reality that Estes Park will look like Grand Lake and Breckenridge very soon, and spraying a few trees here and there isn't going to make any difference.
Mr. Booth makes some very valid arguments, but like many who share his point of view, has taken the extreme tactic of assuming the only solution is to stop the spraying altogether, and has resorted to trying to involve a State investigation authority which will sadly probably never be able to do a thing.
I also agree with one of the other posters that in large part this chemical is no more harmful than what is probably stockpiled in everyone's garage, and we could likely "cut and paste" page upon page of information on those to try to drum up fear as well.
However, the real concern, and the one that most are missing in this debate is that thousands of trees in Estes were sprayed this year. Not unlike the number of roofing companies that appear after a hailstorm, this is an opportunity in an otherwise poor economy. These contractors are hiring untrained people to keep up with demand, many of which are making mistakes in the interest of making a buck.
The rules in this State are simple, follow the label directions. If you look at the label directions for the most common chemicals used to treat trees for beetle (of which permethrin is used much more often than Sevin (carbaryl)) It should not be used when it is windy enough to blow to unintended areas, used near surface water, or when it is going to rain prior to the estimated drying time, 1/2 to 2 hours in most cases. The applicators in the article clearly sprayed too close to surface water. That's the argument that should be made, not, "They never notified me!", they don't have to! Not "They didn't wear masks!", they don't have to!
Realistically, spraying a few trees is not going to stop this infestation, and its always unwise to spray chemicals when they aren't absolutely needed. I can't blame homeowners for trying, but it's probably a lost fight already. Let's shift our focus to what we do for next year. No one should spray after July 1st, if you are, you're being scammed, the beetles have been flying for over a month already.
Let's talk about how to balance saving our trees with not creating a bigger problem down the road.

I agree with this last post. Does no one any good to be spraying when we all know what's going to happen. Maybe the Town should have a registry for pesticide applicators like they do in Grand Lake. Tighter oversight might mean more incentive to do this properly.

PART 1 OF MY ANSWER TO (JIM H)

HELLO JIM H ~ FINALLY A PERSON WHO IS NOT AFRAID TO USE MOST OF HIS NAME ~ THANK YOU FOR THAT SIR :)

IN ANSWER TO YOUR STATEMENT: "i would challenge anyone to approach a tree full of birds with a garden hose and see if you can get within 10' before they all fly away." I OFFER THE FOLLOWING: THERE ARE WILD BIRDS HERE IN ESTES PARK THAT (RIGHT OR WRONG) ARE SO TAME FROM FEEDING THEM THAT THEY WILL FLY UP TO YOU AND LAND ON YOUR FINGER + EAT RIGHT OUT OF YOUR POCKET AND ARE NOT SCARED AWAY BY A GARDEN HOSE + DON'T FORGET THE PROTECTIVE NESTING MOTHER BIRDS & BABY BIRDS THAT CANNOT FLY YET AS WAS THE CASE WITH LITAS'S PROPERTY. IN FACT LITA PICKED UP THE LAST DEAD BIRD FROM UNDER THE TREE THAT WAS SPRAYED TWO DAYS AGO WHEN I VISITED HER PROPERTY AND SPOKE TO HER.

LITA IS A CREDIBLE WITNESS WHO HAS LIVED HERE IN ESTES PARK HAVING TAUGHT OUR 1ST GRADE CHILDREN + RAN SEVERAL BUSINESS (AS SHE STILL DOES TODAY) AND IS A TAXPAYING CITIZEN OF OUR TOWN THAT DEMANDS RESPECT ~ NOT SOME KIND OF LIAR AS PORTRAYED BY SOME TO SOME OF THESE PESTICIDE PROMOTING BLOGGERS...

IN ANSWER TO YOUR STATEMENT: "what we should be doing is writing articles describing the facts, the real risks of these pesticides, and the long-term reality that estes park will look like grand lake and breckenridge very soon, and spraying a few trees here and there isn't going to make any difference." I OFFER THE FOLLOWING: FINALLY SOMEONE GETS IT!!! "JIM H" SAYS IT ALL HERE... NO MATTER HOW MUCH "CARBARYL" AND OTHER PESTICIDES ARE SPRAYED ALL OVER OUR STATE ALL THE PONDEROSA & LODGE POLE TREES ARE GOING TO DIE... AND ALL THE DOUGLAS FIRS, BLUE SPRUCES, WILDFLOWERS, SHRUBBERY, EST... ARE GOING TO HAVE MORE ROOM TO GROW :)

WHAT IS WRONG WITH LETTING GOD RE-DECORATE OUR STATE AND DOESN’T ANYONE REMEMBER THAT OLD COMMERCIAL ISN’T NICE TO INTERFERE WITH MOTHER NATURE!

TO BE CONTINUED...

PART 2 OF MY ANSWER TO JIM H ~ IN ANSWER TO YOUR STATEMENT: "Mr. Booth makes some very valid arguments, but like many who share his point of view, has taken the extreme tactic of assuming the only solution is to stop the spraying altogether and has resorted to trying to involve a state investigation authority which will sadly probably never be able to do a thing." I OFFER THE FOLLOWING: IF YOU GO BACK AND READ MY 1ST 24 PART POSTINGS JIM YOU WILL SEE THAT I OFFER MANY DIFFERENT LESS TOXIC APPROACHES TO MOUNTAIN PINE BEETLE MITIGATION ~ STOP TRYING TO PAINT ME AS SOME KIND OF EXTREMIST!!! I HAVE BEEN TARGETING THE PESTICIDE "CARBARYL" DUE TO ITS KNOWN HAZARDS TO PEOPLE AND OTHER LIVING THINGS + ITS BEING BANNED IN A MULTITUDE OF OTHER COUNTRIES THAT CARE LESS ABOUT MONEY & MORE ABOUT THE HEALTH AND WELFARE OF THERE OWN CITIZENS.

AS FAR AS THE "and has resorted to trying to involve a state investigation authority which will sadly probably never be able to do a thing." PART OF YOUR ABOVE STATEMENT GOES...(A) WRONG JIM!~ I DID NOT "try" TO INVOLVE OUR STATE DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE... I "DID" INVOLVE OUR STATE DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE... WHY SHOULDN’T I? OTHERWISE WHAT THE HECK ARE WE PAYING THEM OUR TAX DOLLARS FOR??? & (B) SADLY MY BEEHIND!!!~ WHEN AVERAGE CITIZENS FILE A FORMAL COMPLAINT ABOUT THEIR OWN PERCEPTION OF THE "MISS" OR "ILLEGAL" APPLICATION OF PESTICIDES TO OUR STATE DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE THEY (THE CODOA) IS BOUND BY THE STATE PESTICIDE LAWS THAT I HAVE LISTED ABOVE (FOR THIS VERY REASON :) TO INVESTIGATE & THEY JUST LOVE VIDEOTAPE EVIDENCE!!!

TO BE CONTINUED...

PART 3 OF MY ANSWER TO JIM H ~ IN ANSWER TO YOUR STATEMENT: "i also agree with one of the other posters that in large part this chemical is no more harmful than what is probably stockpiled in everyone's garage, and we could likely "cut and paste" page upon page of information on those to try to drum up fear as well." I OFFER THE FOLLOWING: WRONG AGAIN JIM! THE CHEMICAL "CARBARYL" IS ONLY AVAILABLE TO COMMERCIAL APPLICATORS THAT HAVE BEEN LICENSED BY OUR COLORADO STATE DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE PESTICIDES DIVISION BY "JOHN SCOTT" AND ENFORCED BY "MATT LOPEZ".

OUR HEAD STATE PESTICIDE GUY "JOHN SCOTT" IS NOT UNSYMPATHETIC AS HE WAS GOT CANCER AT 18 AS HE REPORTS FROM A PESTICIDE CONTAMINATED WELL IN A PART OF IOWA THAT HAD THE HIGHEST CANCER RATES IN THE STATE.~ ARE WE CALLING JOHN A LIAR OR A KOOK???~ I THINK NOT & IT WOULD BE AGAINST THE LAW FOR AVERAGE UNLICENSED CITIZENS TO HAVE "CARBARYL" IN THEIR GARAGES ~ JUST READ THE NIOSH & OSHA MSDS (MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEETS) ON "CARBARYL" THESE DOCUMENTS WILL PUT THE FEAR OF "CARBARYL" INTO ANY REASONABLE PERSON WHO READS THEM (PERIOD)+ CUTTING AND PASTING WELL RESOURCED "FOOTNOTED" FACTS FROM CREDIBLE SOURCES (LIKE THE ONES I PUBLISHED ABOVE) TO SUPPORT THE COURAGEOUS EDITOR OF THE ESTES PARK TRAIL GAZETTE, LITA, AND ALL OF THE OTHER CITIZENS AND VISITORS OF THE STATE OF COLORADO THAT DO NOT WANT TO BE SPRAYED ACCIDENTALLY OR ON PURPOSE WITH PESTICIDE POISONS IS A GREAT WAY TO HELP EVERYONE.

TO BE CONTINUED...

PART 4 OF MY ANSWER TO JIM H ~ IN ANSWER TO YOUR STATEMENT:“however, the real concern, and the one that most are missing in this debate is that thousands of trees in estes were sprayed this year. Not unlike the number of roofing companies that appear after a hailstorm, this is an opportunity in an otherwise poor economy. These contractors are hiring untrained people to keep up with demand, many of which are making mistakes in the interest of making a buck." I OFFER THE FOLLOWING: YOU HIT THE NAIL RIGHT ON THE HEAD WITH THIS ONE JIM... ALTHOUGH EVEN A TRAINED WORKER IN FULL PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT AS REQUIRED BY STATE LAW STAND GETS OVERHEATED STANDING IN THE SUN ~ YOU CANT HEAR WELL... YOU CANT SEE WELL AND IT IS TOO MUCH TO ASK THESE MOSTLY YOUNG MEN TO PAY ATTENTION TO THE WIND THAT CAN CARRY A CLOUD OF TOXIC PEOPLE, WILDLIFE, AND PROPERTY POLLUTING PESTICIDE ACROSS A PROPERTY LINE INSTANTLY MAKING THEM A COLORADO STATE LAW BREAKER SUBJECTING THEM & THEIR EMPLOYER TO SUBSTANTIAL FINES AND PENALTIES ~ LET ME REPEAT... THE JOB WE ARE ASKING THEM TO DO WITHOUT BREAKING THE LAW... IS QUITE SIMPLY IMPOSSIBLE FOR ANYONE TO CARRY OUT WITHOUT ENDANGERING ALL OF US.
TO BE CONTINUED...

PART 5 OF MY ANSWER TO JIM H ~ IN ANSWER TO YOUR STATEMENT:“the rules in this state are simple": WRONG AGAIN JIM!!! WHICH AGAIN IS THE REASON WHY I POSTED THE COLORADO ARTICLE 9 PESTICIDE STATUTES ABOVE SO THAT THE AVERAGE CITIZEN OR LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER CAN SEE THAT THESE LAWS ARE COMPLICATED & CONFUSING TO SAY THE LEAST. JUST TRYING TO FOLLOW THE MANUFACTURERS LABEL DIRECTIONS (MINUS A GLOSSARY) IS CONFUSING & MISLEADING ~ FOR INSTANCE THE "SEVIN CARBARYL" LABEL CALLS FOR CHEMICAL RESISTANT HEADGEAR WHEN SPRAYING OVERHEAD BUT DOES NOT USE THE WORDS EYE PROTECTION ~ WHILE THE NIOSH & OSHA CARBARYL SHEETS CLEARLY CALL FOR EYE PROTECTION ~ AGAIN WHEN WE TRUST THE MANUFACTURER LABEL TO PROTECT US FROM THE HAZARDS OF THEIR OWN PESTICIDE PRODUCT... IT IS LIKE ASKING THE FOX TO GUARD THE CHICKEN COOP :) TO BE CONTINUED...

PART 6 OF MY ANSWER TO JIM H ~ IN ANSWER TO YOUR STATEMENT: "they never notified me!", they don't have to!" I OFFER THE FOLLOWING: YOU ARE RIGHT ON THIS ONE JIM! THEY DON'T HAVE TO... NOT UNLESS YOU ARE ON THE COLORADO STATE CHEMICALLY SENSITIVE LIST ~ THEN BY COLORADO STATE LAW THEY DO HAVE TO ~ THE REST OF US THOUGH HAVE TO SUFFER THROUGH AND MAYBE BE POISONED BY THIS LACK OF SIMPLE HUMAN COURTESY ON THE PART OF MANY PESTICIDE APPLICATORS.

IN ANSWER TO YOUR STATEMENT: "they didn't wear masks!", they don't have to!” I OFFER THE FOLLOWING: WRONGO ON THIS ONE JIM ALL SEVIN CARBARYL LABELS AS WELL AS NIOSH & OSHA SAFETY STANDARDS REQUIRE THE USE OF A SPECIAL RESPIRATOR DESIGNED TO BE USED WHEN SPRAYING "CARBARYL" ~ NICE TRY THOUGH :)

TO BE CONTINUED...

PART 7 OF MY ANSWER TO JIM H ~ IN ANSWER TO YOU FINAL STATEMENT:“realistically, spraying a few trees is not going to stop this infestation, and its always unwise to spray chemicals when they aren't absolutely needed. I can't blame homeowners for trying, but it's probably a lost fight already. Let’s shift our focus to what we do for next year. No one should spray after july 1st, if you are, you're being scammed, and the beetles have been flying for over a month already. Let’s talk about how to balance saving our trees with not creating a bigger problem down the road." I OFFER THE FOLLOWING: RIGHT ON THE MONEY HERE JIM :) I COULD NOT HAVE SAID IT BETTER MYSELF!!!~ LETS USE WAYS OF SAVING OUR TREES THAT WE KNOW ARE NOT HARMFUL TO PEOPLE AND OTHER LIVING THINGS AND FOCUS ON DOING THINGS LIKE WATERING THE TREES, PRUNING, TREES, PUTTING UP MPB PHEROMONE PACKETS, PUTTING UP BIRD FEEDERS TO EAT THE LITTLE BUGGERS (BIRDS OR ON DUTY DAWN TO DUSK THE WHOLE YEAR) WHILE "CARBARYL" ONLY LASTS 16 DAYS IN OPTIMAL CONDITIONS AND KILLS MANY OTHER INSECTS THE BIRDS NEED TO LIVE AND PROSPER.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR TAKING THE TIME TO ADD TO THIS DISCUSSION "JIM H" BECAUSE IT GAVE ME A CHANCE TO ANSWER YOUR CONCERNS WITH WELL-RESOURCED FACTS.

I GIVE YOUR OVERALL UNDERSTANDING OF ALL THE ISSUES INVOLVED WITH SPRAYING "CARBARYL" TO KILL THE MOUNTAIN PINE BEETLE A SOLID B+ & GIVE YOU AN A+ FOR EFFORT & LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR RESPONSE TO MY ANSWERS :)

BE WELL JIM AND THANKS TO ALL WHO ARE PAYING ATTENTION TO THIS IMPORTANT DISCUSSION...

TILL NEXT TIME...

THOMAS EDGECOMB BOOTH

Thomas,

How are you? I am wondering why you or your organization have not tested the town's water? From the best of my recollection, testing water can be done in town, and is not that expensive.

Jena