Keep your sewer Greeneville

Greeneville is considering "letting" Tusculum tie in with its sewer system. The rates would be $51.50 for water and sewer service +$36 surcharge to pay off loan + a 10% increase to water rates forecast over the next year + a 25% increase to sewer rates over the next 5 years.....so we are talking about an eventual $100 a month water/sewer bill. Greeneville is so concerned that a business (which would add jobs to Greene County) will locate outside the city limits, that they are going to extreme measures to keep Tusculum sewerless. Keep you sewer Greeneville and keep losing jobs and keep eroding the county tax base. I think it is time that the elected officials of Greeneville and Greene County start addressing the 16.5 % unemployment rate and stop playing games. Greeneville's sewer system is only operating at 43% capacity which means they are losing money, which means they have to raise rates. Wait until another factory (Huf) or two leaves town. Running at 43% of capacity might look good in another year or two.

I don't think Greeneville is going to extreme measures. I think they are just trying to make sure Tusculum residents pay for Tusculum sewer and not Greeneville taxpayers. It's funny how Tusculum residents don't pay property taxes but they think they should have all of the services that those of us who pay those taxes have....

Well Greeneville Tax Payer, you have a point but unless I'm wrong, doesn't a percentage of all the county property taxes collected go to the city? That's the way I've always heard it. Plus, what does the sewer really have to do with city taxes? The sewer system is a pay service and should be self funded.

No, it's the other way around. County residents pay only county property tax. City residents pay both city and county tax. And yes, it is a pay service, but if they don't have the capital to build the system, where should the money come from? Shouldn't it come from the people who are wanting the service??

Ok, so that you don’t think I’m crazy let me clarify what I was saying. LOL. I live in the city and realize that I pay city and county property taxes. I was told once that in addition receiving all the city taxes, the Town of Greeneville also receives a percentage of all county taxes collected. That may have been a crock but I was told that by someone who should have known.

If I say something that isn’t exactly right about this don’t hold it against me. This has been going on for 10 years or longer. If memory serves me right, a grant was received to build the water treatment plant and the application for that grant was submitted stating that sewer would be brought to the city and nearby county areas including Tusculum. Then I’m pretty sure that Greene Valley and Tusculum College paid for trunk lines large enough to service the rest of Tusculum. Nothing was paid by Greeneville for that. Then Greeneville put a moratorium on extending lines to the county. When Tusculum tried to build their own system or become a Johnson City Sewer customer, Greeneville blocked that too. I think that is the root of “Tusculum Bum’s” problem with Greeneville “letting” Tusculum be on their sewer system now. When they were trying to keep businesses from locating in Tusculum, they denied Tusculum sewer.

My understanding is that the Town of Tusculum originally agreed to go in on the matching funds for the grant. When everything was agreed upon and construction began, suddenly the Town of Tusculum didn't want to be a part of the project. The Town of Greeneville, Greene Valley, and Tusculum College then had to foot the entire bill, AFTER entering into the grant agreement with the understanding that Tusculum would also be a contributor. I can understand why the Town of Greeneville would have a problem with the Town of Tusculum getting a benefit now....

Really? Was that ever in the paper?

I've never read that Tusculum backed out of anything with regard to the sewer issue.

Not saying that what you are saying isn't 100% true, I've just never read that. It’s possible I missed it. However sometimes I wonder if we don't have selective reporting happening on some issues.

I'm guessing that it would have been in the paper back when the moratorium was originally passed. I was told this 3 or 4 years ago when Tusculum brought it up again.

I've been following your posts on this matter since it began.

Here is a link for a Greeneville Sun Article about the sewer issue. The article is text of letters between then Mayor Love and then Mayor Bird. Bottom line is that Greeneville wanted to force businesses to located in Greeneville instead of Tusculum. This is why they didn't want Tusculum to have sewer. There was nothing about Tusculum backing out of any type of funding. I invite you to read this article and see how Tusculum was offered sewer in exchange for allowing Greeneville to annex some of Tusculum's city limits.

http://www.greenevillesun.com/story/259131

Greeneville taxpayer wrote:

I don't think Greeneville is going to extreme measures. I think they are just trying to make sure Tusculum residents pay for Tusculum sewer and not Greeneville taxpayers. It's funny how Tusculum residents don't pay property taxes but they think they should have all of the services that those of us who pay those taxes have....

BTW, in that article it explains that Tusculum uses its sales tax money to provide its services. Those services that you think they don't deserve becaues they supposedly aren't paying for them like you are. Moshiem has services too. Does that bother anyone? That fact that they don't pay city taxes has nothing to do with their right to provide services if they can find a way to pay for it. How they pay for services is their business. It isn't costing the Town of Greeneville anything so why do you care if they have services that Greeneville has?

I’m sorry if this is a repost. Looks like my original post was deleted.
I've been following your posts since Tusculum Bum began this discussion. Maybe this will clarify the matter for some of you.

This is a link to the Greeneville Sun story on the Tusculum sewer issue. The text is letters between then Mayor Love and then Mayor Bird. It is clear the reason Greeneville placing a moratorium on extending sewer to Tusculum was because they wanted to annex Tusculum and/or block businesses from locating there.

Sewer was offered to Tusculum in exchange for some of its city limits. There was never any mention of Tusculum backing out of any type of fund matching for a grant. Further, the Town of Greeneville did not pay for anything in regard to Greene Valley or Tusculum College as was mentioned in one of the posts above. I invite you to read this article to clarify why Greeneville blocked Tusculum from sewer. The bottom line is Greeneville did not and does not want businesses to locate in Tusculum. I don’t blame Tusculum Bum.$100 a month is ridiculous far a water/sewer bill. I’d tell them to stick it too!

http://www.greenevillesun.com/story/259131

There are two MAJOR problems with Tusculum using Greeneville's sewer. One is that after 20 years Greeneville will inherit ownership of the sewer. The second is impact on businesses and residents that are currently in Greeneville moving to Tusculum.

Do you think that Tusculum has the money to maintain their sewer like Mosheim does? Mosheim's water and sewer bills are 2 or 3 times that of Greeneville and they can't even take care of what they have. Mosheim's sewer is around 20+ years old and is in a severe state of disarray, lawsuits, deaths, etc... Mosheim isn't even on Greeneville's sewer so there is no comparison to the Tusculum issue except as an example of what it takes to maintain a sewer that the Greeneville taxpayers will inherit after 20 years.
On the second point. Currently many residents from Greeneville who are above average income have been relocating to Tusculum to take advantage of not paying land tax. This has impacted Greeneville tax revenue. An example of business: Walmart would have built in Tusculum if they had sewer. Do you know how much tax revenue Walmart generates for Greeneville? Could we afford any new or current businesses moving out? Jobs coming to Greeneville are still jobs for people in Greene County.

Tusculum wants to have all the benefits of being a city and they make the county pay for it. Example: Currently the Sheriffs Department has to maintain extra units to cover Tusculum because Tusculum can't afford more than two officers. Tusculum trash pickup and tipping fees are paid for ultimately by the rest of the county (unless lately Tusculum has been covering their own fees).

Why is Tusculum so special that they get preferential treatment. This isn't all about Greeneville vs Tusculum, it's about making sure that Greene County taxpayers are all getting their money's worth from their tax dollars just like Tusculum does.

The Greeneville Sun prints what their revenue generators want them to print.(i.e. Businesses)
Brandon Hull (who wrote the current proposal) who is on the Greeneville Water board owns subdivisions in Tusculum. With the new sewer he could turn his 1 acre lots (1 acre is because they must have room for septic) to 1/5 acre lots. Cramming houses into Tusculum. What affect would this have on the 'small town feel' that currently attracts residents to Tusculum? Many new residents are from out of the area retires enjoying the low cost of living here.

Also, I don't see anyone from Tusculum fighting for sewer.

I welcome any comments.

Most people in Tusculum are NOT fighting for sewer. When they wanted to hook on to JC sewer I beleive that was blocked too. My point above was why they don't want to hook on to Greeneville.

The person above said Tusculum had other services and didn't pay city taxes. My point to that person was that it isn't costing the Town of Greeneville anything (since they said they live in the city) so what's that to them?

Further, Tusculum pays county taxes and if Tusculum didn't have a police department the sherrifs department would have to cover that area anyway.

Everyone is scared to death that some big business will located in Tusculum. Well did you ever think the lower taxes might just attract a lot of business to this area that we don't have? With unemployment being over 17% in this county it's time people stopped being picky about where they locate and start doing everything we can to attract those businesses.

Well said.

I hope no buisness locates in Tusculum! Tusculum doesnt have sewer! That would be awful!
The buisness would also receive a higher insurance rate due to Tusculums inadequate infrastructure of a large enough fire department. With a heavier burden of a large buisness upon the Tusculum fire department the residents of Tusculums insurance point rating will remain higher and costs of insurance. A Fire department is one of a cities largest expenitures which is paid for thru a city land tax and a buisness personal property tax.
No land tax? poor planning!Here we will get to sit back and see real life serious consequences of surburban area attracting buisness without having to bear the costs. Tusculum living high in benifits paid for by Greene Countys tax money, 69,000 Greene County residents and only Tusculum receives door to door trash pick up and land fill tipping fees. These services are unfair to 69,000 Greene County residents, Tusculum residents dont know what their own Government is doing or costing others! Send Greeneville a invitation to its own funeral and call it a plead for sewer.
A city should always have 2.5 police officers per 1000 residents . Tusculums police infrastructure is even too small for residental and now she wants to attract buisness? Oh I forgot Tusculums is going to rely on Greene Countys sheriffs department to be their city police. Shame again 69,000 Greene County residents paying Tusculums growth police. When a police officer arrests someone they then have to spend a day in court with that person which will leave Tusculum with no police officer on duty. Call the sheriff , yeah I remember and leave the rest of Greene County 69,000 residents short of a patrol person! Shame.

Trash, Police, Fire, Insurance,unfair burden, raping Greeneville of it's tax based buisness district,
Should I bring up, planned growth , building codes, road repair, sidewalk repair,

2 to 5 years from now Tusculum will get a land tax from this one way or another. I might come from a failing Greene county needing to offset costs of a unplanned growth in Tusculum. One thing that will be set in stine is Tusculum will have a over 100.00 a month water bill for 20 years!
We need to do everything we can to attract buisness in Greene County in a planned area that has sewer , Trash pickup, Fire department, building codes, natural gas lines, sidewalks, which has to be paid for with a city land tax or the system is inadequate and also unfair to the surrounding 69,000 other Greene County residents.

Maybe Greeneville should drop its city land tax next year and live off Greene County just for one year. After five years take all the county taxes and double them and everyone pays the same tax but only Tusculum and Greeneville gets the new buisness. Poor farmers in the country paying higher taxes because I had a lame idea about planning a uncontrolled growth. Just because it sounds fair doesnt make it a good idea.
The crazy thing is this is what Tusculum is saying out loud in public meetings. Tusculum spent over $1000,000.00 lately sewing Greeneville over the sewer and Greeneville probably spent twice that defending her buisness district trying to stop unplanned inadequate growth in its suburban fringe areas. Over a quarter million dollars already spent on this lame idea.

Shame on Greeneville! Really. Greeneville knows that at the end of this year the water department will be in a negative of 400,000.00. Da! water rates needed to be raised right? Why were they not? So Tusculums mayor could sell his people a cheaper sewer system and knowing that next year Greeneville will have to raise their rates over 25 % maybe streatched out over a 3 year period. To think Greenevile is letting Tusculum set its water rates to sell this sewer to a inadequate infrastructure suburban fringe area.
The maintance rates for this new sewer are off the board. First it was 55 dollars then 39 dollars then 45 dollars then back to hopefully being 38 dollars. another dollar amount suggested by Tusculums mayor.
The county water and sewer rates are always twice Greenevilles. The water rates for Tusculum mentioned at the Greeneville water comittee meetings are only 25% higher ," Mentioned that is". Unless the other parts of Greene County is to pay full charges as a county sewer customer and Tusculum is spoiled or too poor to pay actual rates then twice the city rate if fair. The last meeting the water rates and maintance rates went up another 25%. I guess Tusculums mayor will have to have a meeting with the Greeneville water department comittee to tell them that Tusculum is special and poor and needs a lower price than the other 69,000 Greene County residents. OK Mayor when is the Meeting? You had better hurry your time is running out.
Ok wait till the last week and have a meeting , get the price set , have it voted in by Greeneville, accept the offer, build the sewer, set the rates for 20 years, get the 25% water increase in city which is twice for county residents 50%, then have a Tusculum town hall meeting and tell Tusculum, OOPS sorry and by the way 13% of Tusculum doesnt have to pay these charges!! And due to tearing up the streets during getting the sewer, we set the street rebuild and sidewalk rebuild in the maintance charges to keep from having a small city land tax. Oh so now we have a little inter city unfairness!! OUCH!! Hate thy neighbor!!! Hate thy Brother!!
Hey send a letter to the county sheriff , we need more help with shoplifters!! Gas drive offs, Loiters, traffit control while repaving roads, and send it care of the other 69,000 Greene county residents! Because now they are short on police patrol in their own streets and will have to hire more help!

Looking back and reading about Tusculums government and how it operates and doesnt inform its residents about whats going on.
I bet a meeting is already planned for Tusculums mayor to meet with Greeneville and no one in Tusculum knows about it. OUCH OUCH !!!!
Well: at least the Tusculuns' are saving a small monthly city land tax! Yeah!

OK Friday at 2:00 pm at Greeneville Light and Power board room. Everyone is invited.If tusculum grows and the sheriff department has to hire more men to help patrol Tusculum don't be upset if land taxes go up. I hope a few of Greene County shows up to support the other side of the county. Tusculum is part of Greene County so if one part of Greene County get free trash pick up shouldn't all Greene County get trash pick up? Shouldn't all Greene County get sewer just like Tusculum who only pay a county land tax? What is this meeting for didn't the water department vote the agreement in? UNLESS !!!!!! Ouch Ouch Tusculum want to pay less for water and sewer than the rest of the 69,000 Greene County residents!!! LOL Is it they want to pay water rates like Greeneville city pays? Greeneville owns the water department and if you live in the county you always pay trice the city rate or 200%. which all 69,000 Greene County residents pay. This would not be fair and should not be allowed unless everyone in Greene County get a cheaper rate

Can I just say that I really could care less on this issue either way but I think it’s crazy for Tusculum to want to purchase sewer from Greeneville.
I can see both sides of this issue. I can see where Greeneville fears the loss of tax revenue from businesses who might locate in Tusculum due to the lower taxes. I can see why Tusculum believes that they should be extended service from Greeneville because Greeneville has blocked Tusculum’s efforts to purchase sewer elsewhere and Greeneville did receive federal taxpayer funds with the stated intent to extend the service to Tusculum. I checked the Greeneville Sun past stories. LOL.
However, Tusculum is going to be giving up its sovereignty if it goes along with hooking onto Greeneville Sewer. Think about it. Under the current agreement, Tusculum will not be extended sewer for business use. This is for residential only. Tusculum’s hands will be tied if in the future they want to attract more business (as has been suggested). Tusculum will be at Greeneville’s mercy. I just think its bad policy for a town to bring a neighboring town into its affairs this way.
I can agree with watchdog that Tusculum will probably end up paying a city land tax anyway if Tusculum continues to expand. So why don’t they just figure out a way to pay for their own sewer system? Then the town of Tusculum can then dictate how much or how little they wish to expand. I think this would be a much better alternative for Tusculum.
BTW, I can also see the benefit to two neighboring cities being in a competition for business. It would certainly help business owners if a city like Tusculum decided to expand, charge a lower city tax and try to attract business. The competition would probably lower taxes for us current business owners in Greeneville in an effort to attract new business away from locating in Tusculum. More businesses would want to locate in the area, in general, and that would be great for everyone in Greene County! As someone recently said, competition makes us better and is good for everyone! Tusculum should really consider trying to find a way to build its own system.