Ask Amy 11-9

Dear Amy: I have been married for 20 years. Six months ago my husband announced that while he loves me he isn't "in love" with me anymore. He says there is no "spark" and he isn't sure he wants to be married.

This news was devastating.

I love my husband and love our life with our three kids. We went to marriage counseling a couple of times, but my husband did not want to keep going because he didn't want me to have "false hope" and he couldn't commit to working to save the marriage when he wasn't sure he wanted to be in it.

I went by myself to our counselor, who advised me to be patient and to wait until my husband could commit to our relationship. She said I should assure him that I would be there for him no matter how long he needed.

The stress and constant uncertainty about our future is taking a huge toll, both physically and emotionally.

I am starting to crack around the edges. Keeping the facade of a happy home life with our children, family and friends is exhausting. I worry that if I push my husband or try too hard, he will leave. I worry that if I don't keep trying so hard, he will leave.

What should I do?— Sad Wife

Dear Sad: I hate to second-guess your counselor, but in my view your counseling should focus more on your feelings, stress and sadness — and less on how to maintain the limbo state in your home.

If you manage to keep your husband in your home at this
superficial level but crack under the pressure, your children will be denied an emotionally healthy mother.

Your goal should be to live an authentic and balanced life while not being the embarrassing object of your husband's indecision.

You might have to do the most difficult thing here and tell your husband that if he has no commitment to be in the marriage, then it's time to try a separation. Your family's geometry may change, but your children can do well if you are calm, constant and consistently there for them.

Dear Amy: We have family members who are the house- guests from hell. They walk into our home and it's total chaos, from dirty laundry to kids' toys everywhere. They stay for several days and it has become an almost monthly routine. They do nothing to help. The father is consumed with killing the next squirrel, rabbit or bird, while the children are left to their own devices.

With the holidays just around the corner, we are dreading what's in store.

We've indicated that we wouldn't be home for the holidays and their response was, "We'll take care of your home while you're gone."

What should we do?— Upset Family

Dear Family: Evidently, you're so passive that you would rather leave town than make a simple statement. Your family knows this and they are — hello — using you.

So try saying this: "We're sorry, but these visits are too hard on us and we can't have you stay at our house anymore. We'd like to invite you for the holiday dinner, but you're going to have to stay somewhere else."

They may be indignant. That's how people react when they lose their free hunting lodge. But you'll have to be clear and consistent, and they'll have to hunt for housing elsewhere.

LW1: Ending a 20 yr marriage is devastating but you need to move on.

LW2: Stop inviting them. Sounds like you're over-exaggerating just a little though.

And a lovely Monday morning to you, edog! Thanks for being here so early.

For both these letters, I have to do admit that Amy is pretty sharp today.

L1- Sit around & wait until the old man can pull his head out of his butt & decide what he wants to do? In the meantime, he has live-in maid service. Wow, what a tough life. Can I buy me one of those? Grow a spine, throw the ratbastard out. He doesn't want to be married? Then he doesn't want the perks that marriage brings. You know, things like 1 mortgage., 1 tax bill, 1 set of utilities. It sounds like the kids are mostly grown, so I don't think it's going to be as hard on them as the LW imagines. And that counselor sucks.
L2- Again, another spineless wonder. Why would you allow a family to wreck your home once a month? Here's a thought- lock your doors. That should be faily effective at keeping them out.

Sheesh- I hate doormats.

Oops- 2 typos. Well, it's not even 6AM, so I'll cut myself a little slack.
#1- I have to do admit= i do have to admit.
#2- faily effective= fairly effective

I'm going to the ATM later. IOU

Andie J wrote:

AL1- Sit around & wait until the old man can pull his head out of his butt & decide what he wants to do? In the meantime, he has live-in maid service.

Not saying I disagree that she needs to move on, but do you always equate having a wife to having a maid? How do you know how much or how little she does for him in that regard? My parents co-habitate(but not for much longer). They each do for themselves.

L1: I don't know about ht emaid thing either, but Amy is right about taking steps for herself and being there for the kids. Might be a midlife crisis for him but he's not too bright if he thought there wouldn't be times you don't "feel the love". That's when commitment comes into play and you find the love with your spouse.

L2: No doubt these people are spineless. Lock your doors when you see them coming if you can't speak up. Change the locks if they have a key.

Dear Amy: You advised "Wondering" to chase off a potential boyfriend for killing a raccoon that invaded her yard.

Raccoons are transmitters of rabies, distemper and roundworm, which, for example, blinded a teenager in New York City. You can look it up on the Internet!

Your naive advice suggesting your writer should chase this person away for his alleged heartlessness is just silly.

-- D in Denver

Dear D: The real issue isn't how dangerous raccoons are, but how no one has the right to kill something -- even vermin -- on someone else's property without permission. You can look it up!

I Like Tonka wrote:

<quoted text> Not saying I disagree that she needs to move on, but do you always equate having a wife to having a maid? How do you know how much or how little she does for him in that regard? My parents co-habitate(but not for much longer). They each do for themselves.

It was an assumption on my part, based on the woman's willingness to keep trying to hold on to her man. I'm thinking along the lines of clean, folded laundry daily, gourmet meals, sex at any time & in any way he wants, spotless house, spotless kids. I wonder if the man wants a divorce because he can't handle her fawning all over him.

Terri at home wrote:

L2: No doubt these people are spineless. Lock your doors when you see them coming if you can't speak up. Change the locks if they have a key.

I'm thinking if they have a key- why? Why? I can't think of a single person I would be willing to have as a guest every month. Did you notice the part about dead animals? What's up with that?

Lucy wrote:

Dear Amy: You advised "Wondering" to chase off a potential boyfriend for killing a raccoon that invaded her yard.
Raccoons are transmitters of rabies, distemper and roundworm, which, for example, blinded a teenager in New York City. You can look it up on the Internet!
Your naive advice suggesting your writer should chase this person away for his alleged heartlessness is just silly.
-- D in Denver
Dear D: The real issue isn't how dangerous raccoons are, but how no one has the right to kill something -- even vermin -- on someone else's property without permission. You can look it up!

Thanks, Lucy. It's a rehash, & we've gone over this one ad nauseum. I do agree with Amy in that noone has a right to take it upon themselves to kill an animal that's on someone else's property. Vermin or otherwise.

Andie J wrote:

And a lovely Monday morning to you, edog! Thanks for being here so early.
For both these letters, I have to do admit that Amy is pretty sharp today.
L1- Sit around & wait until the old man can pull his head out of his butt & decide what he wants to do? In the meantime, he has live-in maid service. Wow, what a tough life. Can I buy me one of those? Grow a spine, throw the ratbastard out. He doesn't want to be married? Then he doesn't want the perks that marriage brings. You know, things like 1 mortgage., 1 tax bill, 1 set of utilities. It sounds like the kids are mostly grown, so I don't think it's going to be as hard on them as the LW imagines. And that counselor sucks.
L2- Again, another spineless wonder. Why would you allow a family to wreck your home once a month? Here's a thought- lock your doors. That should be faily effective at keeping them out.
Sheesh- I hate doormats.

I'm not trying to jump on Tonka's bandwagon here, but I disagree as well. In addition to Tonka's point, I'd also like to question why you think 1 Mortgage, 1 Tax Bill, & !set of utilities is a "Perk" of marriage for a man?
Newsflash. When I was single ("between marriages"), guess how many sets of these bills I had? Just the one!!!! What a shocker.
It is extremely sexist (and these days increasingly inaccurate) to assume that the male will be liable for both sets of bills after a divorce. So basically, I don't see the argument that this is a marriage perk to be valid.
I am big believer and supporter of sexual equality, and while part of that is that women and men should be paid the same rate for the same work , and have the same opportunities, another is that a mother is no more important to a chiold than a father is, and a woman is just as responsible to support herself and her family as a man is.

<<throws money in the TTD jar for above post, and smiles sheepishly>>

LW1--Totally with Andie on this.

LW2--"Sorry, no." Change the locks, if they have a key. Be prepared for a great deal of whining and guilt tripping. Maybe turn off your phone. Gack.

LW3--Again with Andie. Thanks!

Mcfixer wrote:

<quoted text>
I'm not trying to jump on Tonka's bandwagon here, but I disagree as well. In addition to Tonka's point, I'd also like to question why you think 1 Mortgage, 1 Tax Bill, & !set of utilities is a "Perk" of marriage for a man?
Newsflash. When I was single ("between marriages"), guess how many sets of these bills I had? Just the one!!!! What a shocker.
It is extremely sexist (and these days increasingly inaccurate) to assume that the male will be liable for both sets of bills after a divorce. So basically, I don't see the argument that this is a marriage perk to be valid.
I am big believer and supporter of sexual equality, and while part of that is that women and men should be paid the same rate for the same work , and have the same opportunities, another is that a mother is no more important to a chiold than a father is, and a woman is just as responsible to support herself and her family as a man is.

Hey, I'm just calling it like I see it. Different strokes, ya know? I see a woman who is willing to be subjugated. Sure she should be responsible for herself & her family. As far as the 1 mortgage comment goes, in many divorces that would be considered a perk. A client of mine just got off of paying alimony this year. He still has to cover the $10k/year in real estate taxes because his ex is not willing to sell the house. I guess she had a better attorney than he did.

LW1: Get a new counselor and give your husband an ultimatum. Do you really like living in limbo?
LW2: Chevy Chase' Christmas Vacation.

LW2:
When they say ""We'll take care of your home while you're gone."
The correct response is "No you bloody won't. You've never looked after anything in here whenever you've been over before, so I've no reason to think you're going to start now."
If you can't be honest and face up to your family, good luck next time you need to change your car. That could get expensive.

Mcfixer wrote:

LW2:
When they say ""We'll take care of your home while you're gone."
The correct response is "No you bloody won't. You've never looked after anything in here whenever you've been over before, so I've no reason to think you're going to start now."
If you can't be honest and face up to your family, good luck next time you need to change your car. That could get expensive.

I can see it now-
LW- I'm looking at new cars next week.
Relative from hell- Oh cool. I'll take your old one. Can I have the keys now?
LW- OK. Here ya go. Would you give me a ride home?
RFH- No, I'm too busy right now.
LW- OK. I'll take the bus, since I'm such a weenie I can't stand up for myself.

Andie J wrote:

<quoted text>
Hey, I'm just calling it like I see it. Different strokes, ya know? I see a woman who is willing to be subjugated. Sure she should be responsible for herself & her family. As far as the 1 mortgage comment goes, in many divorces that would be considered a perk. A client of mine just got off of paying alimony this year. He still has to cover the $10k/year in real estate taxes because his ex is not willing to sell the house. I guess she had a better attorney than he did.

The example that you give is sad, but (I assume since you've related it) true.

But it still doesn't make one set of bills a marriage perk.

Truth is, for hundreds of years the law, and it's application was too heavily weighted in favor of men.

Once this was corrected, the pendulum of application swung to the other extreme, and we have had a period where (particularly in the arenas of sexual harrassment, and divorce) where things have been biased in favor of women.

It would appear that we are grudually emerging from this to a more balanced approached, and this is a good thing.

Perpetuating the "AMAB and must pay in a divorce" myth, is no better than trying to perpetuate some of the "keep them pregnant, barefoot, and chained to the stove" nonsense spouted by some on these threads.

I'm not trying to have a pop at you Andie, but I am trying to kill such an attitude of inequal responsibility based on almost no evidence.

Mcfixer wrote:

LW2:
When they say ""We'll take care of your home while you're gone."
The correct response is "No you bloody won't. You've never looked after anything in here whenever you've been over before, so I've no reason to think you're going to start now."
If you can't be honest and face up to your family, good luck next time you need to change your car. That could get expensive.

You bloody rock!

Andie J wrote:

<quoted text>
Hey, I'm just calling it like I see it. Different strokes, ya know? I see a woman who is willing to be subjugated..........

BTW, I totally agree with you on this point, and I never suggested that she shouldn't get out of the situation. She should. But the first step is to talk openly, and hinestly with her husband.
To be honest, I think he is confused.Doesn't know what he wants, and is completely unaware of the damage this is having on his wife.