Officials choose 79th, Chicago, Halsted and Jeffery for bus-onl...

Robert Salm wrote:

Oh, god forbid they should create bus-only lanes on the streets that need this program the most: Michigan Avenue and State Street. Why does CTA always seem to chose the bus routes that are in ghetto neighborhoods?

Didn't Daley turn one of those streets into a bus only zone when he first got into office?

If I remember, he promoted it as a European-style pedestrian mall.

And the streets and it's businesses pretty much died until he relented and brought the cars back.

Chase wrote:

<quoted text>
Didn't Daley turn one of those streets into a bus only zone when he first got into office?
If I remember, he promoted it as a European-style pedestrian mall.
And the streets and it's businesses pretty much died until he relented and brought the cars back.

Actually it was Jane Byrne that turned State Street into a pedestrian mall in '79. So you can't blame that one on Daley.

Salm is seriously misinformed and needs to get out more. Chase is right; State Street was for a while a bus-only zone, and it was a disaster.

And when I read Salm's last sentence, I thought, "Surely, this guy is being ironic"....

Chitownwritergal wrote:

Salm is seriously misinformed and needs to get out more. Chase is right; State Street was for a while a bus-only zone, and it was a disaster.
And when I read Salm's last sentence, I thought, "Surely, this guy is being ironic"....

Yes, I meant it as ironic...ghetto could mean almost anything these days. I didn't mean that to be racist. CTA does have a nasty habit of projecting their pilot projects on less-traveled or poorer areas of the town--the online bus monitoring program doesn't involve one bus route on the north or northwest side of town. Likewise, this silly bus lane/bike rental/prepayment scheme that is, again, being rolled out on the less traveled/poorer areas will only involve routes on the south and west sides of the city.

As for what others have referred to State Street being closed, save buses, that was a program started as part of a common urban initiative in several cities: Memphis and Houston also tried it. It was a way to attract suburban shoppers downtown and make them feel like these areas were "civil...and with a return to the quieter, gentler days of retailing." All of these failed, as they created canyons of continued blight and traffic problems that kept people from wanting to even travel near State Street. These new bus lanes won't shut down streets like the State Street program of the 80s did; merely reduce the far right lane to buses only.

Halsted is basically a narrow street from Grace at the north to as far south as buses run at the far South Side. The only way to create bus-only lanes on Halsted would be to ban parking on both sides of the street from 6am to 9am and 3pm to 7pm on weekdays. What about weekends? The banning of parking on Halsted will surely create joy among the local businesses on Halsted and local residents. Ever try to find a parking space on North Halsted between Grace and North Avenue?

CTA bus-only lanes will be built on portions of 79th Street, Chicago Avenue, Halsted Street and Jeffery Boulevard"

Hmmm... It seems like blacks, hispanics and yuppies are going to be the first to pay the price...

time to really test the system

The only problem I foresee is enforcement of the bus-only lanes; Jackson from Canal in is suppose to be right-only unless buses are turning, but cabs and cars are always sitting in the lane, blocking traffic with their flashers on. I would foresee the same thing happening on Michigan Avenue and State street if they put in the same kind of lanes, which is what I think this plan proposes to do (not the closed-off pedestrian mall of the 80s).

Further, it is west-side commuters that don't have access to direct train routes that those along State street could opt to take instead; last I checked, Chicago Avenue wasn't exactly the "ghetto" until you get really far west, and Halstead serves a multitude of areas. Despite this, it appears that maybe people in what you term as "ghetto" neighborhoods are entitled to public transit as well, they ride the busses, and since this is testing the waters to see how it will work long term, the most vocal riders can provide the best feedback.

Robert Salm wrote:

<quoted text>
CTA does have a nasty habit of projecting their pilot projects on less-traveled or poorer areas of the town--

Seems to me that this project should be in these neighborhoods... you know the ones where people have less/no money to pay for cars/gas/car insurance. As a north sider I don't feel my hood is under served.

Less traveled? Since when are the proposed routes less traveled?

Looks like another cluster F$$K!

Chase wrote:

<quoted text>
Didn't Daley turn one of those streets into a bus only zone when he first got into office?
If I remember, he promoted it as a European-style pedestrian mall.
And the streets and it's businesses pretty much died until he relented and brought the cars back.

No, that was Mike Bilandic in the late 1970s, he who was defeated by the snowstorm. It was State Street, and the problem there was they completely kicked cars off altogether and then put these big ugly bus stands up and what they did not only made it impossible for people to pick up or set down friends and family -- it also made for a space that was very unwelcoming to pedestrians too -- huge wide empty sidewalks, no traffic other than buses and taxis, it made for a very intimidating space (think Federal Center plaza in terms of atmospherics) at any time of day other than the peak rush, and it put shoppers off State Street.

Mayor Daley came in and getting rid of this mess was one of his priorities; it was done in 1995-6 in the way that you see today.

Chris wrote:

<quoted text>
Actually it was Jane Byrne that turned State Street into a pedestrian mall in '79. So you can't blame that one on Daley.

Sure it was Byrne? You're right about the date, but she only took office in April 1979 -- that project was in the works before then.

Searching the Chicago Public Library's online catalog I was able to find a reference to a planning document for the State Street fiasco from 1974 -- so Daley Sr. had a hand in it too apparently.

There is absolutely nothing the city could do to entice me to ride the CTA. Nothing. All these new efforts will succeed in doing (for many average Chicago families, such as those living in Mt. Greenwood and Beverly) is continuing to keep them out of the downtown area with the ridiculous parking fees and the streets clogged with slow moving buses. I am sure all of those folks living in the suburbs, esp. those "city suburbs" like Oak Lawn and Brubank, will be in a huge rush to connect to the CTA via local public transportation. NOT! Way to keep everyone out of the downtown area, folks!

Well...I try not to buy ANYTHING in the city anyway, and neither should you. Especially gas, I'll drive out of my way to buy the suburbs. I don't want to give this crook one cent more than I have to. And neither should you. So I don't care. Anything my family buys big ticket...we go to DuPage county...and so should you. That's the only way we're gonna hurt them is not do business with them.

It's about time the city & CTA created bus-only lanes. They were doing this in Europe (Germany, at least) decades ago.

Christy wrote:

The only problem I foresee is enforcement of the bus-only lanes; Jackson from Canal in is suppose to be right-only unless buses are turning, but cabs and cars are always sitting in the lane, blocking traffic with their flashers on.

Kind of like the "bike lanes" I've noticed painted on the streets downtown. You can only see these painted demarcations when there's a brief break in the heavy car traffic usually covering them.

There's a big difference between what the CTA is now proposing and what Daley Sr/Bilandic/Byrne did in the late 1970s with State Street. The new plan will not abolish cars from these streets, just reserve a lane so buses can get through faster, which will encourage more people to ride the bus.

Chicago Gal wrote:

There is absolutely nothing the city could do to entice me to ride the CTA. Nothing. All these new efforts will succeed in doing (for many average Chicago families, such as those living in Mt. Greenwood and Beverly) is continuing to keep them out of the downtown area with the ridiculous parking fees and the streets clogged with slow moving buses. I am sure all of those folks living in the suburbs, esp. those "city suburbs" like Oak Lawn and Brubank, will be in a huge rush to connect to the CTA via local public transportation. NOT! Way to keep everyone out of the downtown area, folks!

If you live in the suburbs, what are you complaining about? Don't you take the highway to get downtown?

I have seen a system like this with dedicated bus lanes separated from other lanes by small barriers in Mexico city. Those are left lanes and the stations look like small metro stations in the median. Similar systems work in many other cities now. A system like this can achieve speeds/capacities comparable to a subway at a fraction of a cost. The key is absolutely no obstacles in the lanes so that the buses do not have to constantly merge. If they can pull something like this off, it will be a great addition to the public transportation in Chicago, just like having a lot of new train routes in the city.