When off-duty police fire their weapons

Full story: Chicago Tribune

Hours after Officer Phyllis Clinkscales fatally shot a young man trying to steal her car, Chicago police investigators and commanders ruled the shooting justified.

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Lakeview Leroy

Chicago, IL

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#2
Dec 6, 2007
 
These guys think they can do anything. There are more than a few bad apples. I also hear there are quite a few street gang members who are CPD.
Matt

Union, IL

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#3
Dec 6, 2007
 
Drunk cops with guns is a recipe for disaster. Whenever an off-duty officer discharges his/her weapon resulting in injury or death that officer should be subject to a blood test. If the officer was shown to be under the influence, that officer should be subject to suspension/expulsion and possibly prosecution, depending on the severity of the incident. It is only common sense and should be part of the restrictions that officers have to abide by as part of the responsibility of carrying a gun off-duty.
Yossarian

Chicago, IL

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#4
Dec 6, 2007
 
Regrettably, I'm not the least bit surprised. I live in a safe neighborhood and don't have many concerns about crime, but the CPD scares the hell out of me.

I always thought that their long-standing unoffiocial practice of shaking down merchants and restauranteurs for meals, cigarettes, etc., was marginally excusable in light of the fact that, if called upon to do so, they would protect members of the general public from actual violent crime. Recent developments (videotaped beatings, random shootngs) lead me to conclude that we'd be better off treating the CPD like criminals.

Moreover, this doesn't happen in the rest of the world. When that Mette character beat the crap out of a Iowa civilian and then tried to lie his way out of it, the Iowa authorities did what we should do: tried Mette, convicted him, and threw him in prison.
Teddy

Chicago, IL

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#5
Dec 6, 2007
 
Even when Chicago officers are off the clock and out of uniform, they are obligated to respond to emergencies. For that reason, off-duty officers are allowed to carry their gun and badge.

----------

The only thing we are required to do is to call 911, thats it.

You better believe I am not about to get into some gunplay if I am off duty and I don't have to, when I do not have my bullet proof vest, extra magazines of ammunition, a radio etc.

Let's not mislead the readers here into thinking we are required to take physical action off duty.

The article is so one sided, I do not know where to start.
Teddy

Chicago, IL

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#6
Dec 6, 2007
 
Matt wrote:
Drunk cops with guns is a recipe for disaster. Whenever an off-duty officer discharges his/her weapon resulting in injury or death that officer should be subject to a blood test. If the officer was shown to be under the influence, that officer should be subject to suspension/expulsion and possibly prosecution, depending on the severity of the incident. It is only common sense and should be part of the restrictions that officers have to abide by as part of the responsibility of carrying a gun off-duty.
So what you are saying is he/she should be prosecuted, even if the findings are that he/she fired their weapon for good reason?

So you have NEVER had a drink on your free time, huh?

Let's not play holier than thou.
JAY

United States

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#7
Dec 6, 2007
 
I CANT BELIVE THE COPS ARE UNDER SO MUCH SCRUTINY,THEY RISK THEIR LIVES TO PROTECT OURS AND THIS IS HOW WE REPAY THEM.THERE IS NO MAKING YOU PEOPLE HAPPY IS THERE??????????
Teddy

Chicago, IL

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#11
Dec 6, 2007
 
Dear Editor:
The Chicago Tribune is biased against the Chicago Police Department. Its goal is, and always has been, to portray police officers in the worst possible way to its readership. In order to poison the minds of its readers, the Tribune needs a bridge to the public. This is where Steve Mills, house reporter to the People’s Law Office and the Loevys, comes into play.
When reading Mill’s articles, one must realize that the story is being told by a person who is clearly biased against the Chicago Police Department. Reputable news outlets rely on unbiased reporting. The Tribune does not subscribe to that philosophy. Mills is an out-and-out “police hater.” At a national conference in New Orleans, Steve Mills was quoted as saying the following about Chicago Police Officers:
“It’s very clear. It’s us against them.”
“I mean why not make it (the relationship with police) an all out war…It’s our job to go after them.”
When Mills writes a story, he misleads his readers by providing a slanted account of the details. He admitted to as much when he said,“So, well, we can’t be as systematic as we’d like sometimes, if you can’t get enough—as long as you, you know, you stay focused like a laser on what you’re really trying to prove, you can go far enough and get enough into the paper to make the points.”
Make the points? What about reporting the entire story rather than bits and pieces which support your conclusion? The readers have no choice but to think poorly of police officers after reading his misleading stories. But then again, that is exactly what Mills and the Tribune want.
Mills talks about the tragic situation when a paraplegic was shot by police officers. After reading his story, a reader has no other choice but to conclude that the officers acted inappropriately. That is because Mills followed the Tribune script perfectly:“Present only the facts which hurt the police.” What Mills failed to write, by design no doubt, was that the paraplegic was fleeing the police in a stolen car moments prior to the shooting. He did not mention that the offender was driving the wrong way down streets during his flight. He also failed to mention that the offender threw a second gun out of his car during the chase. He claims that a gun was planted on the offender. So the first gun was his, but the second one had to be planted?
Moreover, it is undisputed that the offender’s family was outside when the shooting took place. It was a warm summer evening, with people all over the place. Surely someone must have seen the police plant this gun? Not one of those persons ever alleged that the police planted the gun on the offender. It was not until years later that someone concocted this story. Mills also failed to mention that the police explained that the offender pointed his gun at the officer who was standing outside his window when he was then shot by a police officer from the rear of the vehicle. Mills contends that since there were bullet wounds to the back of the offender’s hands, it is obvious that the offender had his hands “raised in surrender.” Mills neglected to mention that it was at least equally plausible that the wounds to the back of the offender’s hand came as the result of his pointing his gun at the officer. But then again, why should Mills or the Tribune let facts get in the way of a good story.
His series, which will continue all week, will likely contain more fabrications, selective testimony and out-and-out lies. This disservice to the members of the Chicago Police Department and every citizen of this City will have lasting effects. When credibility is given to one man who builds bridges between fact and fiction, and misleads the public, the credibility of all members of the media is questioned, just as is the credibility of all police officers.
Sincerely,
Mark P. Donahue
President
Fraternal Order of Police, Chicago Lodge #7
Stan

Geneva, IL

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#13
Dec 6, 2007
 
Teddy wrote:
<quoted text>
So what you are saying is he/she should be prosecuted, even if the findings are that he/she fired their weapon for good reason?
So you have NEVER had a drink on your free time, huh?
Let's not play holier than thou.
Once alcohol is involved, then "good reason" becomes murky. If judgment is impaired, then the officer's point of view should be taken with a grain of salt.
Teddy

Chicago, IL

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#14
Dec 6, 2007
 
This article was written by a friend of lawyers who make more money suing the police department than any other law firm in Chicago.

Look at their website, the bias is obvious!

http://www.loevy.com
Teddy

Chicago, IL

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#15
Dec 6, 2007
 
The Chicago Tribune is biased against the Chicago Police Department. Its goal is, and always has been, to portray police officers in the worst possible way to its readership. In order to poison the minds of its readers, the Tribune needs a bridge to the public. This is where Steve Mills, house reporter to the People’s Law Office and the Loevys, comes into play.

When reading Mill’s articles, one must realize that the story is being told by a person who is clearly biased against the Chicago Police Department. Reputable news outlets rely on unbiased reporting. The Tribune does not subscribe to that philosophy. Mills is an out-and-out “police hater.” At a national conference in New Orleans, Steve Mills was quoted as saying the following about Chicago Police Officers:

“It’s very clear. It’s us against them.”

“I mean why not make it (the relationship with police) an all out war…It’s our job to go after them.”

When Mills writes a story, he misleads his readers by providing a slanted account of the details. He admitted to as much when he said,“So, well, we can’t be as systematic as we’d like sometimes, if you can’t get enough—as long as you, you know, you stay focused like a laser on what you’re really trying to prove, you can go far enough and get enough into the paper to make the points.”

Make the points? What about reporting the entire story rather than bits and pieces which support your conclusion? The readers have no choice but to think poorly of police officers after reading his misleading stories. But then again, that is exactly what Mills and the Tribune want.

Mills talks about the tragic situation when a paraplegic was shot by police officers. After reading his story, a reader has no other choice but to conclude that the officers acted inappropriately. That is because Mills followed the Tribune script perfectly:“Present only the facts which hurt the police.” What Mills failed to write, by design no doubt, was that the paraplegic was fleeing the police in a stolen car moments prior to the shooting. He did not mention that the offender was driving the wrong way down streets during his flight. He also failed to mention that the offender threw a second gun out of his car during the chase. He claims that a gun was planted on the offender. So the first gun was his, but the second one had to be planted?

Moreover, it is undisputed that the offender’s family was outside when the shooting took place. It was a warm summer evening, with people all over the place. Surely someone must have seen the police plant this gun? Not one of those persons ever alleged that the police planted the gun on the offender. It was not until years later that someone concocted this story. Mills also failed to mention that the police explained that the offender pointed his gun at the officer who was standing outside his window when he was then shot by a police officer from the rear of the vehicle. Mills contends that since there were bullet wounds to the back of the offender’s hands, it is obvious that the offender had his hands “raised in surrender.” Mills neglected to mention that it was at least equally plausible that the wounds to the back of the offender’s hand came as the result of his pointing his gun at the officer. But then again, why should Mills or the Tribune let facts get in the way of a good story.
Former Trib Subscriber

Chicago, IL

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#18
Dec 6, 2007
 
I knew gangbanger Washington, locked him up before. What a piece of ****. His rap sheet was longer than a childs xmas list. He surely got what he deserved. He lived by the sword and died by the sword. The tribune wants to make a the police officer who is a carjacking victim out to be the offender, what a disgrace. I'm done reading this story and paper, just canceled my subscription.
Fred

United States

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#19
Dec 6, 2007
 
People they are CPD - they can do anything they want and not get in trouble for it. Best defense is make sure you have alot of cop friends
REAL TALK

Chicago, IL

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#20
Dec 6, 2007
 
starling to me is that officers has just giving up.

Police Work Being Halted
Chicago, IL Reply »
|Report Abuse |#80 22 hrs ago
I personally know MANY honest, hard working police officers who are refusing to do any police work anymore. This is fast becoming the survival technique for law enforcement in Chicago. Officers are sick of the WORST criminal element of the city being supported by the fake reverends and political hacks not to mention the biased liberal media.
Police Officers WILL follow all department guidelines and laws however FORGET about doing any aggressive work. Going to assignments with lights and sirens blaring at 20 mph so the offenders know they are coming and briskly flee the scene is fast becoming the norm for both seasoned and young Chicago Police officers alike. What can Chicago Police Command or the new Independent Police Review Authority do about this? NOTHING! All rules and laws are followed.
If you are standing in the street and are waiving down a police car because your mother just had a heart attack or someone is breaking in your back door, don’t be flabbergasted when the officer is “looking in the other direction” because he “thought he saw something on the other side of the street” when he really just didn’t want to get involved with your problem which he is afraid will end his career. Once again, what can Command staff or the new IPRA do about this? NOTHING! All directives and laws are followed to “the T.”
If anyone in Chicago has thought hard about purchasing a gun for self protection, NOW just may be the time to do so. Your lives just may depend on it. I highly doubt the next time you hear a burglar in your home at 3 a.m. the so called “reverends” that are monetarily supported by gang members or a liberal member of the media who lives in Highwood Illinois will come to save your life.
Safe Chicagoan

Chicago, IL

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#21
Dec 6, 2007
 
The incidents chronicled in this Tribune series are not an indication of widespread police misconduct. Additionally, in none of these cases were the actions of the involved officers even alleged to have been cold and calculated acts - rather they were reactions to the actions of others.

Chicago is headed toward it lowest annual murder total in more than 40 years, in large part due to the efforts of the CPD. How quickly do we forget? Not so long ago carjackings and gang killings were the banner news stories and homicide was the Tribune's big news series.

With the Tribune's current series, where is the balancing side bar about off-duty police officers that have used their weapons off-duty to save lives. Often under heroic circumstances.

For that matter, where is the Tribune sidebar indicating that the murders of police officers across the US are at more than a 30-year HIGH. Attacks on Chicago police officers have been increasing each year for several years. Officers are kicked, punched, stabbed, and even shot at with far more regularity than is ever reported.

Without question, every now and again officers are engaged in misconduct. This is the case in every profession. Just as true, once the media finds a topic, every possible opportunity to beat that drum is taken. Clearly, we are once again in a "cops are bad" media environment. Even the Tribune editorial tied their deadly force series to the two highly publicized bar incidents this past year and the criminal cop Jerome Finnegan.

Perhaps the Tribune could start advertising for the CPD's next hiring exam. "Wanted Super Heros." "Warning, if you decide to apply and get the job be careful -- If you make a split-second decision and its wrong we will want to send you to prison faster than if you were the one who made the deliberate choice to steal a car, rob a bank, murder a rival drug dealer."

The Tribune demands objectivity from the city's police officials and elected leaders. The Tribune needs to demonstrate objectivity as it presses this demand.
Former Trib Subscriber

Chicago, IL

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#22
Dec 6, 2007
 
His series, which will continue all week, will likely contain more fabrications, selective testimony and out-and-out lies. This disservice to the members of the Chicago Police Department and every citizen of this City will have lasting effects. When credibility is given to one man who builds bridges between fact and fiction, and misleads the public, the credibility of all members of the media is questioned, just as is the credibility of all police officers.
Sincerely,
Mark P. Donahue
President
Fraternal Order of Police, Chicago Lodge #7 It's about time you spoke up, how about giving a press conference now.
Teddy

Chicago, IL

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#23
Dec 6, 2007
 
Congratulations Chicago Tribune,

By printing this biased garbage by a self-professed police hater, you have assure that I, and everyone I am close to, will never buy a Chicago Tribune again.

Furthermore, we are never going to spend money with anyone who advertises in the Tribune.

A note to your advertisers.
Dan

United States

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#24
Dec 6, 2007
 
Teddy wrote:
Its goal is, and always has been, to portray police officers in the worst possible way to its readership.
The CPD have created this environment with the public. Only the CPD with their actions can correct and reverse the feelings of the public of the CPD.

It is up to the Boys in Blue, no one else, to earn the respect you deserve by finding and publicly exposing the "Burge style of policing". If you think this is wrong then prove to the citizens that the "Burge police" is not the CPD of today and bring them out into the open.
northsider

Wood Dale, IL

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#25
Dec 6, 2007
 
Same opinion as Yossarian, but I am in a quiet NW side neighborhood where a neighborhood bar frequented by off duty cops has seen more than a few incidences where a gun was fired and it didn't even make the local paper. Fights, drunk driving, you name it, they get away with it. It is an unfair representation of the good cops out there, but they do exist and you never know who you are dealing with, so you have to be careful.
Stan

Geneva, IL

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#26
Dec 6, 2007
 
Teddy wrote:
This article was written by a friend of lawyers who make more money suing the police department than any other law firm in Chicago.
Look at their website, the bias is obvious!
http://www.loevy.com
The law firm's use of newspaper headlines to promote its success doesn't suggest a bias on behalf of the reporter. The incidents take place, the lawsuits follow and the newspapers cover those trials, especially if they're for large verdicts. It's called free advertising.

Back to my original post: does an officer still have "good reason" if he's impaired?
Mike

United States

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#27
Dec 6, 2007
 
13,500 Chicago Police Officers, and only 11 Off Duty Officers involved in off duty shootings. Even if they were all bad shoots as the article attemtps to purport one should do the math. You will realize that the majority of Police Officers are doing the right thing.

50 Chicago Alderman. More with criminal histories and indictments. So mathematically the City Council is more corrupt than the CPD.

The men and women of the CPD are here to protect us. Every profession might have a few bad apples but the stories against the Police appear to be one sided and liberal slanted.

God Help Us All, when the Police refuse to protect us anymore.

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