Baha'i rift: Baha'is upset with Orthodox Baha'i Faith

It is baffling to these minds, how we can therefore understand, remain firm and yet commingle and associate within all these seven groups, thus our friends and believers are throughout all 7 great faiths, and throughout all 7 Baha'i groups as well and in all of these cases some in the highest ranking outer positions of administrative authority within those other groups! Yet servants to no one but to God Himself. "Unity in diversity." Walking the spiritual path with practical feet. Thus all are encouraged to remain in their respected communities and in full association with their peoples. The negative element within all groups is obvious and the Directive: avoid it, shun it, ignore it; while continuing to function within the body of God, that is the body of humanity, the heart of which is, as is all our hearts meant to be, His home – "sanctify it for My descent!" (Hidden Words, Baha'u'llah)

This type of shock and awe is best exampled in the following comment of an eminent Baha'i scholar on the foundations of the Cause and the early vigilant forms of the Cause – similar to Mosaic Law and practice – under the Dispensation of the Bab which lasted 9 or 19 years. Not only had he never lived in a community that practiced the spirit of these writings, as exemplified by `Abdu'l-Baha's son, in his Directives as President of the Universal House of Justice from the early 1960's, this valuable scholar had never come across the writings of `Abdu'l-Baha and Shoghi Effendi which reiterate that self same Directive of respect and preservation of the rights of the multiple Baha'i groups and their members and their leaders:

"To be honest, this flabbergasted me. I had never seen the passages in question before, and they caught me unawares. Anything, whether scriptural or otherwise, I had ever read previously on covenant-breakers, had been extremely negative: reading their words is like "eating vomit" (as put by a [Covenant-breaking] "Hand" of the Cause), they are utterly despicable, they are to be shunned absolutely, even by their families, and so on. All of those vitriolic passages in God Passes By about Azal and Mirza Muhammad 'Ali, and Ruth White, and Ahmad Sohrab, and every 'enemy of the Faith' from Haji Mirza Aqasi on. So to learn that even Covenant-Breakers have rights turns a lot of my assumptions upside down. The biggest puzzle, of course, is why there aren't more passages displaying this degree of humanity, and why the Baha'is haven't made greater efforts to present this side of their faith, instead of the heavy-handed conservatism to be found in the work of so many eminent [Covenant-breaking] exponents." (Dennis MacEoin)

Susan wrote:

<quoted text>

None of the subsequent claimants can be said to be infallible in either sense. The mistakes they made in protecting the Faith are just too numerous and they can't even read most of the Writings, let alone interpret them (not knowing Persian or Arabic.) Of course, both Joel M. and Soghomonian are fixing that problem for the future by appointing Persian successors while Neal Chase remains a blissfully ignorant 'guardian.'
warmest, Susan

The Guardians are divinely guided in matters pertaining to the Faith. Otherwise they make mistakes and are entirely human. Its OK they make mistakes. Shoghi Effendi, Mason Remey, Joel B. Marangella,(and Neal Chase too) are human beings and made mistakes. Also, there is no explicit requirement in the Will and Testament for a Guardian to know any particular language. One who is divinely guided is guided. You always want to create extra qualifications in order to justify your position that nobody is eligible to be the Guardian.

Jeffrey wrote:

<quoted text>
The Guardians are divinely guided in matters pertaining to the Faith. Otherwise they make mistakes and are entirely human. Its OK they make mistakes. Shoghi Effendi, Mason Remey, Joel B. Marangella,(and Neal Chase too) are human beings and made mistakes. Also, there is no explicit requirement in the Will and Testament for a Guardian to know any particular language. One who is divinely guided is guided. You always want to create extra qualifications in order to justify your position that nobody is eligible to be the Guardian.

Evidently His Holiness Muhammad could neither read nor write when He first received His Revelation. Not Arabic nor any other language. That didn't prevent Him from receiving it. How strange that Susan finds it difficult or impossible to believe that a highly literate Guardian cannot be Divinely guided to recognize when a translation into English contains spiritual error.
The Bahá'í Writings do not require that Guardians' nominations for their successors must pass across the censorship desk of any human, female or male for her/his examination and approval. Neither across the censorship desk of any group of humans.
Hopefully our sister will become awake to that fact before it becomes a rude awakening. Hopefully she and her companions will repent and restore the "s" to the first Guardian's word "Guardians" in this quote from which they have removed that "s":

"This is what is meant by "this is the day which will not be followed by night." In this Dispensation, divine guidance flows on to us in this world after the Prophet's ascension through , first the Master, and then the Guardians. If a person can accept Baha'u'llah's function, it should not present any difficulty to them to also accept what He has ordained in a divinely guided individual in matters pertaining to the Faith."

Larry Rowe wrote:

Hello Fred,
Yes fear was even more central to Shoghi's Baha'i faith than the oneness of humanity.

Of course the UHJ has continued on sowing the same fear as well:...

Even though none other than Baha'u'llah himself had removed such antiquated religious practices Shoghi and the UHJ in his stead counciled Baha'is to practice those very religious practices that Baha'u'llah had supposedly abolished:....

Until Baha'is leave such antiquated religious practices behind them their religion will remain part and parcel of the problem of religion being: "the most harmful agency on this planet"* as Abdu'l-Baha' himself put it.

Cheers
Larry Rowe
...

Hello Larry,

I fully agree that Shoghi Effendi and the uhj have created what I would call a cult based entirely on FEAR, and all its offspring, COERCION, PARANOIA, violation of the individual's God-given conscience, highly analogous to all the oppressive systems and regimes of history, whether secular or religious.

In my view, ever since Abdu'l-Baha's death, the monster, leviathan really, created by the spurious will and testament, has been bent upon the destruction of all voices and views contrary to its criminal aspirations of social, material, and political dominance of not just any one nation, but of the entire world. That's a lot for any local leader in a government position to realize and believe--but that's the fact--all of which is thoroughly contrary to what, as you say, Baha'u'llah and Abdu'l-Baha taught.

With the passing decades, it has become even more difficult for Bahais to penetrate the immense veil of lies and fabrications and recover the truth of the Founders own Teachings. But it is possible. Their Teachings were wide and open, addressed to the public. Ultimately, they cannot be suppressed, not even by the corrupted, criminal uhj and its pathetic minions. Corruption is the very essence of the Haifan denomination, for it is built squarely upon a corrupted document. It can never renew the Bahai Teachings. For it has become, as you cite Abdu'l-Baha, "the most harmful agency on this planet." They've proven it for all the world to see with their obscene lawsuits against other Bahai denominations.

In my view, only a renew Bahai denomination returning to Abdu'l-Baha's broad and universal Interpretation for the modern world can do that--the Reform Bahai Faith.

Bahai regards,

Frederick Glaysher

Reform Bahai Faith
Rochester, Michigan USA
www.ReformBahai.org

Baha'i Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/

Question for the Reform Baha'is:

What is your take on the Kitab-i-Aqdas? Do you consider it the Most Holy Book? Do you approve of the translation currently in print? There are a lot of rules in there that might not jive with your interpretation of the Baha'i Faith. I am just curious. I have heard that there was opposition to print it, ever or yet.??? Anyone else know something about this?

What has happened to our friend Wahid? I suspect he might actually live in Iran and perhaps he is prohibitted from accessing the web because of the current upheaval going on there. It might be good to say a prayer of protection for him and others that are facing extreme trials at this time in that country, the origin of our faith.

Janice wrote:

Question for the Reform Baha'is:
What is your take on the Kitab-i-Aqdas? Do you consider it the Most Holy Book? Do you approve of the translation currently in print? There are a lot of rules in there that might not jive with your interpretation of the Baha'i Faith. I am just curious. I have heard that there was opposition to print it, ever or yet.??? Anyone else know something about this?

The Kitab-i-Aqdas or Most Holy Book Is not the single volume named thus and currently in print in various translations though the writings of Baha'u'llah contained therein do comprise a small part of it. Additions to it such as commentary from the Covenant-Breaking false "TUHOJ", that abomination that makes desolate seated in the Holy Place on MT. Carmel, instituted by the 1957 "hands" are dirt and mire that have no worth and need to be disregarded entirely and effaced from the book.

The rest of the Kitab-i-Aqdas is contained throughout the writings of Baha'u'llah and the work of compiling it which was begun by the Guardian Shoghi Effendi is being continued by the current, living Guardian, Neal Chase Ben Joseph Aghsan. This is an ongoing process that was written of by Baha'u'llah, Abdu'l-Baha and Shoghi Effendi and is no mystery for those Under the Provisions of the Covenant. What has thus far been revealed is filled with power and glory beyond description and is a beacon of guidance for the People of Baha and the world. For those outside the Kingdom of God's Covenant it will remain unattainable.

Janice wrote:

What has happened to our friend Wahid? I suspect he might actually live in Iran and perhaps he is prohibitted from accessing the web because of the current upheaval going on there. It might be good to say a prayer of protection for him and others that are facing extreme trials at this time in that country, the origin of our faith.

Wahid lives in Australia, so I understand. So he is perfectly safe.

Janice wrote:

Question for the Reform Baha'is:

You could save yourself some typing, Janice dear, if you just use the official name.

Fred.

Jeffrey wrote:

<quoted text>
The Guardians are divinely guided in matters pertaining to the Faith. Otherwise they make mistakes and are entirely human. Its OK they make mistakes. Shoghi Effendi, Mason Remey, Joel B. Marangella,(and Neal Chase too) are human beings and made mistakes. Also, there is no explicit requirement in the Will and Testament for a Guardian to know any particular language. One who is divinely guided is guided. You always want to create extra qualifications in order to justify your position that nobody is eligible to be the Guardian.

We also must guard, Jeffrey, against the much greater danger of twisting and manipulating the texts so as to appoint "guardians" for the sake of it, when the texts nowhere promise that the line will be unbroken.

This is an understandable mistake - to believe there must always be a guardian at all times - but one borne largely from fear. Yes the texts talk of the "twin pillars' but to claim the UHJ is false because there is currently no guardian is logically to say that Shoghi's guardianship was then equally false because there was no 2nd pillar of the UHJ. It works both ways. It takes spiritual courage to recognise this. We can not tamper with the texts out of (an understandable) fear.

And fear is a very powerful tool for those who know how to use it. And the great tragedy of this very specific "there must be a guardian always" fear is that it allowed a man already approaching his 90s, Mason Remey, a man who had always given wonderful service to the faith, to be brought crashing down by the selfish whisperings and fearful promptings of the Siyyid Muhammad of our age - Joel Bray Marangella.:(

In my opinion, of course.

doris wrote:

<quoted text>
We also must guard, Jeffrey, against the much greater danger of twisting and manipulating the texts so as to appoint "guardians" for the sake of it, when the texts nowhere promise that the line will be unbroken.
This is an understandable mistake - to believe there must always be a guardian at all times - but one borne largely from fear. Yes the texts talk of the "twin pillars' but to claim the UHJ is false because there is currently no guardian is logically to say that Shoghi's guardianship was then equally false because there was no 2nd pillar of the UHJ. It works both ways. It takes spiritual courage to recognise this. We can not tamper with the texts out of (an understandable) fear.
And fear is a very powerful tool for those who know how to use it. And the great tragedy of this very specific "there must be a guardian always" fear is that it allowed a man already approaching his 90s, Mason Remey, a man who had always given wonderful service to the faith, to be brought crashing down by the selfish whisperings and fearful promptings of the Siyyid Muhammad of our age - Joel Bray Marangella.:(
In my opinion, of course.

Here is what Baha'u'llah says to tell you about your opinion "doris":

"Say: O liar, by God, what thou hast is husks. We have left it for you as bones are left for the dogs."

doris wrote:

<quoted text>
We also must guard, Jeffrey, against the much greater danger of twisting and manipulating the texts so as to appoint "guardians" for the sake of it, when the texts nowhere promise that the line will be unbroken.
This is an understandable mistake - to believe there must always be a guardian at all times - but one borne largely from fear. Yes the texts talk of the "twin pillars' but to claim the UHJ is false because there is currently no guardian is logically to say that Shoghi's guardianship was then equally false because there was no 2nd pillar of the UHJ. It works both ways. It takes spiritual courage to recognise this. We can not tamper with the texts out of (an understandable) fear.
And fear is a very powerful tool for those who know how to use it. And the great tragedy of this very specific "there must be a guardian always" fear is that it allowed a man already approaching his 90s, Mason Remey, a man who had always given wonderful service to the faith, to be brought crashing down by the selfish whisperings and fearful promptings of the Siyyid Muhammad of our age - Joel Bray Marangella.:(
In my opinion, of course.

Here's a little more of what Baha'u'llah says about your opinion "doris":

"Say: O Rising place of Deviation, quit concealing the truth! Then speak the Truth in the midst of created beings."

You see people,

What this "doris" person says about the line of Guardians is an absolute lie.

This "doris" person may be repeating a lie they heard from someone else so it may be simple ignorance but they've heard the truth more times than can be counted and yet this "doris" and others similarly afflicted work feverishly against the promulgation of the truth and therefore cannot be afforded any benefit of doubt.

The fact of the matter in this one aspect is that the Guardian line of successorship in the Baha'i Administration is identical with the line of King David in the Bible and as such it is incumbent upon all who claim to be followers of Baha'u'llah to educate themselves in this critically important subject.

Here for the education of all unschooled in this matter of the Baha'i Faith is the link to the official website of the Universal House of Justice and the explanation of this core Baha'i Truth. Without this knowledge ones Baha'i Education is tragically lacking.

http://www.uhj.net/king-david.html

doris wrote:

<quoted text>
We also must guard, Jeffrey, against the much greater danger of twisting and manipulating the texts so as to appoint "guardians" for the sake of it, when the texts nowhere promise that the line will be unbroken.
This is an understandable mistake - to believe there must always be a guardian at all times - but one borne largely from fear. Yes the texts talk of the "twin pillars' but to claim the UHJ is false because there is currently no guardian is logically to say that Shoghi's guardianship was then equally false because there was no 2nd pillar of the UHJ. It works both ways. It takes spiritual courage to recognise this. We can not tamper with the texts out of (an understandable) fear.
And fear is a very powerful tool for those who know how to use it. And the great tragedy of this very specific "there must be a guardian always" fear is that it allowed a man already approaching his 90s, Mason Remey, a man who had always given wonderful service to the faith, to be brought crashing down by the selfish whisperings and fearful promptings of the Siyyid Muhammad of our age - Joel Bray Marangella.:(
In my opinion, of course.

Here this "doris" is wrong as well in stating that "it works both ways" as he/she obviously lacks the understanding that Shoghi Effendi was the second individual in the line of successors to Baha'u'llah as given in Baha'u'lla's Will and Testament, the Kitab-i-Ahd to have conferred infallibility. Shoghi Effendi was the one Abdu'l-Baha chose to pass this conferred infallibility on to in place of the Covenant-Breaker M.M Ali in order to fulfill that stipulation in the Kitab-i-Ahd.

The successor after Shoghi Effendi was to be the Universal House of Justice with the Davidic lineage Guardian placed as it's President, Head Member for life of that body.

The "doris's" assertion is way off the mark of truth and patently false. Anyone who accepts his/her "opinion" is placing themselves at great risk of being deceived.

To quote Abdu'l-Baha:
"TO NONE IS GIVEN THE RIGHT TO EXPRESS HIS OR HER OWN OPINION"

Most men love the sound of their own voice. Most cults talk interminable twisted garbage. Put a man in a cult and you get KPS59.:)

Howdy KPS58,
Also from Abbas Effendi:
The members thereof must take counsel together in such wise that no occasion for ill-feeling or discord may arise.****This can be attained when every member expresseth with absolute freedom his own opinion and setteth forth his argument.**** Should anyone oppose, he must on no account feel hurt for not until matters are fully discussed can the right way be revealed. The shining spark of truth cometh forth only after the clash of differing opinions. If after discussion, a decision be carried unanimously well and good; but if, the Lord forbid, differences of opinion should arise, a majority of voices must prevail.
(Abdu'l-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdu'l-Baha, p. 87)
Cheers
Larry Rowe

And the Buddha of the Latter Day of the Law upsets other Buddhists, the Roman Catholic church upsets the original Greek Orthodox church, the Lutherans upset the Catholics, born-again Christians upset mainstream Protestants, Orthodox Jews and moderate Jews are split, Sunni and Shiite Muslims kill each other every day -- at some point we have to look at these articles and say "This is not news" and move on.

Diamondsouled wrote:

Howdy KPS58,
Also from Abbas Effendi:
The members thereof must take counsel together in such wise that no occasion for ill-feeling or discord may arise.****This can be attained when every member expresseth with absolute freedom his own opinion and setteth forth his argument.**** Should anyone oppose, he must on no account feel hurt for not until matters are fully discussed can the right way be revealed. The shining spark of truth cometh forth only after the clash of differing opinions. If after discussion, a decision be carried unanimously well and good; but if, the Lord forbid, differences of opinion should arise, a majority of voices must prevail.
(Abdu'l-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdu'l-Baha, p. 87)
Cheers
Larry Rowe

This quote only applies to matters that aren't defined in the explicit texts so, no it doesn't apply to my comments about the "doris's" opinions on matters of the Guardianship. All instructions regarding the Guardianship are of course contained within the explicit text of Abdu'l-Baha's Will and Testament and Baha'u'llah's Kitab-i-Ahd before it and are therefore not within the purview of any such debate or anyone's opinion.

Odd how people seem to apply the writings where it serves their deviant purposes without disclosing the full context of those writings they surgically excerpt.

This "larryrowe" person would have others believe that his/her quote of Shoghi Effendi is applicable here even though he/she has no regard whatsoever for the authority of Shoghi Effendi. Strange then that He/she would even seek to interject his/her opinion. "larryrowe's" opinions are therefore nothing more than an obvious attempt to muddy the water and are worthy of no regard in relation to these matters.

For the truth on these and other central matters of the Baha'i Faith, please refer to www.uhj.net which is the only official website of the Universal House of Justice and feel free and confident in reading but casting aside the opinions of miscreants such as these ones.

"Cheers!" and etc.

The Hands' Proclamation on the Guardianship

When news of the Guardian's passing was received at the Bahá'í World Centre on the evening of 4 November 1957, Shoghi Effendi's apartment was immediately locked and guarded so that no one could have access until the Hands of the Cause of God would have time to gather in the Holy Land, which they did shortly after the Guardian's funeral.

'Abdu'l-Bahá's Will and Testament is explicit in stating how the Guardian was to appoint his successor:

He [Shoghi Effendi] is the expounder of the words of God and after him will succeed the first-born of his lineal descendants....

O ye beloved of the Lord! It is incumbent upon the guardian of the Cause of God to appoint in his own life-time him that shall become his successor, that differences may not arise after his passing. He that is appointed must manifest in himself detachment from all worldly things, must be the essence of purity, must show in himself the fear of God, knowledge, wisdom and learning. Thus, should the first-born of the guardian of the Cause of God not manifest in himself the truth of the words:- "The child is a secret essence of its sire," that is, should he not inherit of the spiritual within him (the guardian of the Cause of God) and his glorious lineage not be matched with a goodly character, then must he,(the guardian of the Cause of God) choose another branch to succeed him.

The Hands of the Cause of God must elect from their own number nine persons... The election of these nine must be carried either unanimously or by majority from the company of the Hands of the Cause of God and these, whether unanimously or by a majority vote, must give their assent to the choice of the one whom the guardian of the Cause of God bath chosen as his successor.[1]
[1] Will and Testament of 'Abdu'l-Bahá(Wilmette: Bahá'í Publishing Trust, 1971), pp. 11-12

As soon as 26 of the 27 Hands of the Cause had gathered in the Holy Land (Mrs. Corinne True, whose advanced age and health had prevented her coming, subsequently signed affidavits declaring her support for the various actions her fellow Hands took), they designated nine of their number to enter the Guardian's apartment and search for any document he might have left behind. Following their report, all the Hands, including Charles Mason Remey, signed a document stating that Shoghi Effendi had passed away "without having appointed his successor...."[1]
[1] The Ministry of the Custodians (Haifa: Bahá'í World Centre, 1992), p. 29

From the first conclave of the Hands, gathered in Bahji at that time, a proclamation was issued "To the Bahá'ís of East and West" announcing that, as "The Aghsan (branches) one and all are either dead or have been declared violators of the Covenant by the Guardian", it was apparent "that no successor to Shoghi Effendi could have been appointed by him...." Calling on the believers to unite in completing the Guardian's Ten Year Crusade, the Hands pointed out that, in due course, the Bahá'í world would elect "the Universal House of Justice, that Supreme Body upon which infallibility, as the Master's Testament assures us, is divinely conferred":

When that divinely ordained Body comes into existence, all the conditions of the Faith can be examined anew and the measures necessary for its future operation determined in consultation with the Hands of the Cause.[1]
[1] The Ministry of the Custodians, pp. 35-36, 37, 38

Mason Remey again joined his fellow Hands in signing this second formal statement that there was no successor to Shoghi Effendi as Guardian of the Cause of God.

(The Universal House of Justice, 1997 Jan 31, Mason Remey and Those who Followed him)