Baha'i rift: Baha'is upset with Orthodox Baha'i Faith

Doris wrote:

<quoted text>
So why have you suddenly decided to guess upon this particular person's gender? Why suddenly call Wahid Azal a woman?

Because he made a Freudian slip and revealed his soiled inner garments. Yet in his misogynistic attempt to insult, he also struck on a Truth. Within Me is the One and Only Eternal Woman, the Shekinah, the Dusky Colored Female Dove (warqa). So whether you call Wahid Azal a woman or a man, or both, you would be right!

This woman "nur" also named "nima", "covenant effacer", and "wahid" enjoys using racial epithets and ethnic slur's. She is an equal to any racist in her prejudice. For that she will no doubt one day receive equal reward.

NIMA says:
"Why don't you meet me face to face, Mendel, and I can show you who the real woman is. It ain't me, bitch."

See how she even belittles, demeans, and insults her own gender to attack others. Her statement above is patently insulting in both verbiage and implication to all women.

NIMA is hypocrisy personified.

For those who are truly concerned about the Baha'i Faith and the equality of women and men, go to this link and read the entire decision by the Universal House of Justice.

http://www.uhj.net/justice-for-women.html

Be sure to click on "read full explanation" at the bottom of the page. Here you will find out exactly what Baha'u'llah and Abdu'l-Baha provided for guidance on the matter of gender equality and how the Baha'i Universal House of Justice was given authority to make a just decision which will never be overturned.

Don't believe the impostors (SANS-Guardians).

The truth awaits you.

In brief, O ye believers of God! The text of the divine Book is this: If two souls quarrel and contend about a question of the divine questions, differing and disputing, both are wrong. The wisdom of this incontrovertible law of God is this: That between two souls from amongst the believers of God, no contention and dispute may arise; that they may speak with each other with infinite amity and love. Should there appear the least trace of controversy, they must remain silent, and both parties must continue their discussions no longer, but ask the reality of the question from the Interpreter. This is the irrefutable command!
Upon you be Baha'u'l-Abha!
Abdu'l-Baha, Tablets of the Divine Plan, pg.57

Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - 1912 Authentic Covenant -

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Long suppressed by Bahais of other denominations,
Reform Bahais have returned to, and renewed,
Abdul-Baha's 1912 Authentic Covenant:
http://www.reformbahai.org/Covenant.html

Comments on Abdul-Baha's 1912 Authentic Covenant
http://www.reformbahai.org/Covenant_comments ....

Reform Bahai Faith
Rochester, Michigan USA
http://www.ReformBahai.org

Comments posted to The Chicago Tribune Forum on one page:
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/Chic ...

Baha'i Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship

Yahoo Group - ReformBahai
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ReformBahai

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Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912 Authentic Covenant - Abdul-Baha 1912

KPS59 wrote:

NIMA says:

NIMA is hypocrisy personified.

Sorry, my name isn't Neal Chase or Mirza Husayn 'Ali Nari. Those are the only names of HYPOCRISY PERSONIFIED!

KPS59 wrote:

This woman "nur" also named "nima", "covenant effacer", and "wahid" enjoys using racial epithets and ethnic slur's. She is an equal to any racist in her prejudice. For that she will no doubt one day receive equal reward.

So far I have been receiving the reward of kicking your hide and revealing your demonic face behind that cult-ridden mask, Mendel. What makes you think that's going to change. You *is* sore, ain't you, boy?

ellish wrote:

In brief, O ye believers of God! The text of the divine Book is this: If two souls quarrel and contend about a question of the divine questions, differing and disputing, both are wrong. The wisdom of this incontrovertible law of God is this: That between two souls from amongst the believers of God, no contention and dispute may arise; that they may speak with each other with infinite amity and love. Should there appear the least trace of controversy, they must remain silent, and both parties must continue their discussions no longer, but ask the reality of the question from the Interpreter. This is the irrefutable command!
Upon you be Baha'u'l-Abha!
Abdu'l-Baha, Tablets of the Divine Plan, pg.57

... and as well it was taught by Mirza Husayn Ali that it was OK to either believe him to be god incarnate or to consider him the Supreme Manifestation:

It was perhaps owing to this inadequacy that, at one stage during the ministry of Bahá'u'lláh, there were two major schools of thought among the believers concerning His station. Some believed Him to be the Supreme Manifestation of God, while others went further than this. When Bahá'u'lláh was asked about His station, He confirmed that as long as individuals were sincere in their beliefs, both views were right, but if they argued among themselves or tried to convert each other, both were wrong. This indicates that man because of his finite mind will never be able to understand the true station of the Manifestation of God. The criteria are sincerity and faith. Knowing man's limitations, God accepts from him what he is able to achieve.

(Adib Taherzadeh, The Revelation of Baha'u'llah v 1, p. 303)

So according to ol' Mirza Husayn Ali himself it was fine to engage in idolatry as long as one was sincere in that idolatry. Cult!!!!!!!!!!

Cheers

Larry Rowe

Where did everybody go?

I told you, no one can stand against the Covenant.

All voices fall silent when they rise against it's manifest truth and the proofs put forth by those Under it's Provisions, the People of Baha and the Guardian of the Baha'i Faith, Neal Chase ben Joseph Aghsan.

Jeffrey wrote:

Where did everybody go?

Well I went to my daughter's for the weekend.

It was lovely.

Jeffrey wrote:

Where did everybody go?

Was wondering that myself Jeffery.

I didn't think my post was discussion ender, lol.

Cheers

Larry Rowe

The: "I am God", statement only makes sense and doesn't cross the line into idolatry if stated in the sense: "I am naught but God", meaning I have no existence apart from God.

Baha'u'llah did make it clear though that he believed his station to be: "beyond" that of a manifestation:

The purpose of God in creating man hath been, and will ever be, to enable him to know his Creator and to attain His Presence. To this most excellent aim, this supreme objective, all the heavenly Books and the divinely-revealed and weighty Scriptures unequivocally bear witness. Whoso hath recognized the Day Spring of Divine guidance and entered His holy court hath drawn nigh unto God and attained His Presence, a Presence which is the real Paradise, and of which the loftiest mansions of heaven are but a symbol. Such a man hath attained the knowledge of the station of Him Who is "at the distance of two bows," Who standeth beyond the Sadratu'l-Muntaha. Whoso hath failed to recognize Him will have condemned himself to the misery of remoteness, a remoteness which is naught but utter nothingness and the essence of the nethermost fire. Such will be his fate, though to outward seeming he may occupy the earth's loftiest seats and be established upon its most exalted throne.

(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 70)

To claim to the station of one who: "standeth beyond the Sadratu'l-Muntaha", is to claim a station greater than the Sadratul'-Muntaha, greater than a manifestation of God.

It is such statments of Baha'u'llah's which led that 'major' school of Baha'i thought to mistakenly equate Baha'u'llah with God Himself. I do wonder why Baha'u'llah did not correct this error or perhaps if he truly believed that his station was greater than manifestationhood, as he put it: "beyond the Sadratu'l-Muntaha",?

Cheers

Larry Rowe

328. By my life! This is a day wherein the Sadrat doth not desire but to utter to the world, "There is no God but Me, the Peerless, the Informed." Had it not been for My love unto thee, I would not have mentioned what is herein. Know, therefore, this station! Then keep it as thou keepest thine own eyes and be grateful.

(Compilations, Baha'i Scriptures, p. 197)

[1 The Sadratu'l-Muntaha, translated inter alia as the Sidrah Tree which marks the boundary, and the Lote-Tree of the extremity. Cf. Qur'án 53:14. It is said to stand at the loftiest point in Paradise, and to mark the place beyond which neither men nor angels can pass. In Bahá'í terminology it refers to the Manifestation of God.]

(Abdu'l-Baha, Memorials of the Faithful, p. 175)

Larry Rowe wrote:

The: "I am God", statement only makes sense and doesn't cross the line into idolatry if stated in the sense: "I am naught but God", meaning I have no existence apart from God.
Baha'u'llah did make it clear though that he believed his station to be: "beyond" that of a manifestation:
The purpose of God in creating man hath been, and will ever be, to enable him to know his Creator and to attain His Presence. To this most excellent aim, this supreme objective, all the heavenly Books and the divinely-revealed and weighty Scriptures unequivocally bear witness. Whoso hath recognized the Day Spring of Divine guidance and entered His holy court hath drawn nigh unto God and attained His Presence, a Presence which is the real Paradise, and of which the loftiest mansions of heaven are but a symbol. Such a man hath attained the knowledge of the station of Him Who is "at the distance of two bows," Who standeth beyond the Sadratu'l-Muntaha. Whoso hath failed to recognize Him will have condemned himself to the misery of remoteness, a remoteness which is naught but utter nothingness and the essence of the nethermost fire. Such will be his fate, though to outward seeming he may occupy the earth's loftiest seats and be established upon its most exalted throne.
(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 70)
To claim to the station of one who: "standeth beyond the Sadratu'l-Muntaha", is to claim a station greater than the Sadratul'-Muntaha, greater than a manifestation of God.
It is such statments of Baha'u'llah's which led that 'major' school of Baha'i thought to mistakenly equate Baha'u'llah with God Himself. I do wonder why Baha'u'llah did not correct this error or perhaps if he truly believed that his station was greater than manifestationhood, as he put it: "beyond the Sadratu'l-Muntaha",?
Cheers
Larry Rowe
328. By my life! This is a day wherein the Sadrat doth not desire but to utter to the world, "There is no God but Me, the Peerless, the Informed." Had it not been for My love unto thee, I would not have mentioned what is herein. Know, therefore, this station! Then keep it as thou keepest thine own eyes and be grateful.
(Compilations, Baha'i Scriptures, p. 197)

My understanding of this is that the only approach we have to God is through the Manifestations of God. Therefore to attain the presence of the One beyond Sadratu'l-Muntaha (God) one must enter the holy court of the Manifestation. I really don't think Baha'is believe that Baha'u'llah claims to be God. In reading His Writings as a whole, this is clear.

"Such a man hath attained the knowledge of the station of Him Who is "at the distance of two bows," Who standeth beyond the Sadratu'l-Muntaha. Whoso hath failed to recognize Him will have condemned himself to the misery of remoteness, a remoteness which is naught but utter nothingness and the essence of the nethermost fire."

It is clear from the above Jeffery that the: "station", Mirza Husayn Ali was referring to in the above quote was his own. As well it is clear that Mirza Husayn Ali fully believed that unless a person recognized himself as he who: "standeth beyond the Sadratu'l-Muntaha.", they would be: "condemned"... "to the misery of remoteness".

That those who held to the belief that Mirza Husayn Ali was God Himself were considered to be: "a major school(s)", of Baha'i: "thought" shows that such idolatrous thinking was quite common amongst Baha'is at that time:

It was perhaps owing to this inadequacy that, at one stage during the ministry of Bahá'u'lláh, there were two major schools of thought among the believers concerning His station. Some believed Him to be the Supreme Manifestation of God, while others went further than this. When Bahá'u'lláh was asked about His station, He confirmed that as long as individuals were sincere in their beliefs, both views were right, but if they argued among themselves or tried to convert each other, both were wrong. This indicates that man because of his finite mind will never be able to understand the true station of the Manifestation of God. The criteria are sincerity and faith. Knowing man's limitations, God accepts from him what he is able to achieve.

(Adib Taherzadeh, The Revelation of Baha'u'llah v 1, p. 302)

That Mirza Husayn Ali did not dissuade such idolatry but in fact encouraged it by legitimizing it: "He confirmed that as long as individuals were sincere in their beliefs, both views were right" should just how insane Mirza Husayn Ali (Baha'u'llah) actually was.

There are still many Baha'is who evidently hold to such idolotry:

"I have a Bahai friend who is I think 6th generation Bahai. Some relatives were Babis on the early days.

Here is what he wrote to me recently:

"The relationship between Baha'u'llah and God is unmistakable. Baha'u'llah is God, the One Who Sent Jesus Christ. And when He considers His own self, He proclaims "I am coarser than clay" and has "no control over mine own weal or woe nor over my life."

This Persian friend has told me on more than one occasion that he believes Baha'u'llah is god. I think that is going further. It is further than anything I ever heard."

... from a post to a yahoo group.

Clearly Mirza Husayn Ali (alias Baha'u'llah) not only did not discourage such idolatry he encouraged it.

Cheers

Larry Rowe

Should have read: "shows just how insane Mirza Husayn Ali (Baha'u'llah) actually was." instead of:
should just how insane Mirza Husayn Ali (Baha'u'llah) actually was.

Cheers

Larry Rowe

Larry Rowe wrote:

Should have read: "shows just how insane Mirza Husayn Ali (Baha'u'llah) actually was." instead of:
should just how insane Mirza Husayn Ali (Baha'u'llah) actually was.
Cheers
Larry Rowe

I disagree with any Baha'i, past or present, who claims that Baha'u'llah is more than a Manifestation of God, or even has superior status to other Manifestations. This is contrary to the clearly stated verities of the Baha'i Faith. It is unfortunate that there are fanatical elements who are not firm in the Covenant and who espouse teachings that are heretical. They are causing damage to the Cause of God.

I should clarify what I believe to be the events which drove Mirza Husayn Ali to the delusion, to the idolatrous belief, that he was God Himself.
It is clear from his Iqan that he, at that time, was not under the delusion that he was god.
It was after the Bab appointed his half brother Azal to be the inheritor of his covenant that Mirza Husayn Ali lost it. He fully believed that it would be he who would be the inheritor of the Bab's covenant and when it wasn't he couldn't handle it. It was around this time that Mirza Husayn Ali fled to Sulaimania and hung out amongst the Sufis there. He wrote his Mathnavi there and if anyone is truly interested in seeing evidence of Mirza Husayn Ali's break down and crossing over into self idolatry it can be found here.
I suggest that anyone truly interested in the truth about Mirza Husayn Ali ( alias Baha'u'llah) read this work:
http://bahai-library.com/bsr/bsr09/9B4a_mathn...
It is little wonder that this 'major' work of Mirza Husayn Ali's has not been made available to English reading Haifan Baha'is by their UHJ in any version 'authorized' or not. It is of course freely available to Persian reading Baha'is.
It is quite well understood by the UHJ that such idolatry that many Persian Baha'is engaged in, and still evidently still engage in, would not be tolerated here in the English speaking West. This is the primary motive for the UHJ restricting access to such works of Mirza Husayn Ali's where he conflates his own self with the very Self of God:

"But I fear your feet will lose their footing,
that evil suppositions cloud your mind"

Unfortunately the: "evil supposition(s)", did: "cloud his mind", and he fell into the delusion that his self was indistinguishable from the Self of God.
It is for this reason that I feel sorry for Mirza Husayn Ali ( alias Baha'u'llah), not anger. He was tempted at the gate of gnosis and failed the test. His Mathnavi is evidence of this.
He actually began to believe that he was God Himself and began to encourage his followers to hold to such idolatrous belief. Sad really because he was a very promising Bayani/Babi.
Cheers
Larry Rowe