The Case of Samuel Golubchuk: The Government's Right to Kill the Terminally Ill

If Mr Golubchuk is truely alert and making improvements why is he still on a ventilator? If he can breath on his own he can sustain his own life, therefore taking him off the ventilator would not be killing him, the fact that he could not sustain his own breathing would kill him. Why not keep him on the tube feeds to support his nutrition and remove the ventilator see how he does on his own. We all die eventually, but not with such media coverage. Did anyone think to ask poor Mr Golubchuk, at the age of 84 with a poor medical history, to make a health care directive so that at least the doctors would know what this man wishes were an not just the jewish community.

Selina wrote:

If Mr Golubchuk is truely alert and making improvements why is he still on a ventilator? If he can breath on his own he can sustain his own life, therefore taking him off the ventilator would not be killing him, the fact that he could not sustain his own breathing would kill him. Why not keep him on the tube feeds to support his nutrition and remove the ventilator see how he does on his own. We all die eventually, but not with such media coverage. Did anyone think to ask poor Mr Golubchuk, at the age of 84 with a poor medical history, to make a health care directive so that at least the doctors would know what this man wishes were an not just the jewish community.

Right on. This whole case emphasizes the importance of people making their wishes known before something happens to them and then they are stuck with their relatives' decisions. Maybe the family thinks he's going to live to be 300 or even 900 like Methusalah. They think we should keep everyone alive on ventilators for years. This whole case is a failure of communication between the doctors and the family. Enter the greedy lawyers who will do anything for publicity and, oh yes, for money. They get up there calling everyone killers and charging the family lots of money every time. They are probably using the patient's money to pay the lawyer. So of course the lawyer has a vested interested in keeping the man alive. These lawyers will do anything for money.

We should keep people who can't breathe anymore and have no real life left in them alive forever on respirators so that young people who get in car accidents won't have any machines left for them. Just keep those poor suffering people alive because their families can't let go and just don't get that we are mortal. No, merely opening one's eyes does not constitute meaningful life as we know it on this planet. Just keep these people going so the lawyers can make more money off the vulnerable relatives who just can't let go and will pay the lawyers to say anything. Just keep those old legal fees coming in.

The law states that it's the doctor's call - so it's the law that needs to be changed if the patient is to be kept alive. That's where efforts should be directed. This article is full of lies - especially about Canada's health care system. It is NOT socialized, it's publicly-funded, user-pay. The government does NOT run the Canadian health care system. And it is easy-peasy for doctors to operate outside of it - witness the growing number of for-profit clinics & emergency rooms across the country, to say nothing of provincial governments contracting their workman's comp treatments out to private clinics. Yes, families can use their own money to pay for futile treatment - and go even further into debt on top of their already enormous legal bills. Every Canadian can already buy private insurance to supplement their provincial health care - coverage maxes out at about $75K, just like in the US, then you're on your own. Mr. Golubchuk is IN a religious hospital (Grace is a Salvation Army operation). You can tell the author of this article is in the pocket of the AMA, which continually parrots these tired lies about Canadian health care. Read the Romanow report.

If his family had to pay for the health care costs of keeping this 84 year old veg alive, the plug would have been pulled months ago.

Also keep religion out of health care decisions just like we HAVE GOT TO KEEP RELIGION OUT OF POLITICS. Doctors are trained professionals who are logical and pragmatic...a dying patients family are irrational and emotional and are incapable of making a sound decision.

anti-christ wrote:

If his family had to pay for the health care costs of keeping this 84 year old veg alive, the plug would have been pulled months ago.
Also keep religion out of health care decisions just like we HAVE GOT TO KEEP RELIGION OUT OF POLITICS. Doctors are trained professionals who are logical and pragmatic...a dying patients family are irrational and emotional and are incapable of making a sound decision.

Finally a voice of sanity in all this. Why aren't you the judge in this case? Can you imagine if everybody wanted their elderly relatives with multiple medical problems and no hope of reversal kept alive on a ventilator just because we have the technology and they can't let go? These people are not medical experts and they are very emotional and that is why they should RESPECT and defer to the medical professionals who have the knowledge and expertise to make these decisions. Why on earth a judge would make such an inappropriate decision I'll never know. PErhaps he is old and doddering himself and wants to be kept alive on a ventilator when his time has come. I think when families make such inappropriate decisions they should be sent a bill. But no all their money is going to pay a greedy lawyer who will say and do anything to get their money.

First of all HAVE SOME SYMPATHY FOR THE FAMILY INVOLVED. I really doubt that u would say the same if your father was going through this. Sure he might be what some of u call a "veg" but clearly his family thinks he has reason to live. And religion has a HUGE part in health care!! Religion and life go hand in hand! And it’s the family’s decision to spend their money on lawyers to fight for their father’s life. If our healthcare was not publicly funded most of the middle class people of Canada would have a hard time paying off medical bills we live in a democracy focused on the goals of the majority and the majority needs this public health care. Everyone that pays for health care should receive their opinion of adequate care! Personally I think the court and law should have bare minimum influence on the health care system.

When people demand care that is unreasonable, then they should pay for it. It is just not realistic to keep people alive on ventilators when they are in this condition. I would not want this for me or for a family member of mine.

Religion and life only go hand in hand if you are a superstitious neurotic. You can live a good and "moral" existence without the fear of god hanging over you. I do.

Come out of the darkness and see the world as it really is. Make the best of your life because this is it. There's no heaven, no hell , no angels, no jesus, no allah, santa or the tooth fairy. No second or third time around.

Spend more time doing and less time praying and thinking "someday.... if I'm really really good god will reward me".

anti christ wrote:

Religion and life only go hand in hand if you are a superstitious neurotic. You can live a good and "moral" existence without the fear of god hanging over you. I do.
Come out of the darkness and see the world as it really is. Make the best of your life because this is it. There's no heaven, no hell , no angels, no jesus, no allah, santa or the tooth fairy. No second or third time around.
Spend more time doing and less time praying and thinking "someday.... if I'm really really good god will reward me".

What no tooth fairy? Did you have to spoil my day and tell me that?

I wasn't surprised when I read about a families fight with Grace Hospital to keep their father alive. They are too quick to 'pull the plug'. It nearly happened to me! I nearly died in ICU at Grace Hospital after I had been ignored for three days on the 3rd floor there after I was admitted for severe pneumonia - the nurses totally ignored me when I said I could not breath. I had pneumonia with complications. They refused to turn up my oxygen and stopped completely coming when I rang the emergency bell.

They had even recommended I be put on palliative care and left to die! Fortunately, a doctor happened to visit the man next to me one day and when he heard me struggling to breath the doctor had me sent to ICU immediately! I nearly died (A nurse told me) shortly after arriving in ICU. I was very fortunate – thank God. Fortunately the doctors gave me medicine when I was sent to HSC to see a specialist --and I've recovered nicely!

I have purchased a med-bracelet – guess what’s on it? If I am ever incapacitated DO NOT SEND ME TO GRACE HOSPITAL! It’s been two years now since that terrifying experience and I’m just glad to be alive

…I learned from a hospital employee of a different hospital where I was taken (Fortunately) that the ‘employees at the Grace had ‘recommended’ I be put on palliative’ care and left to die with no medical assistance in the form of drugs that could save my life. I am extremely fortunate to have been transferred from The Grace Hospital before I succumbed. I am stable now 2 yrs later and living quite well and healthy!

But I wonder how many have died needlessly in Grace Hospital in Winnipeg Manitoba?

So what has that got to do with a 84 year old who is terminally ill and on life support?

All you have contributed is innuendo. It just doesn't make sense that you could be in a hospital for 3 days and not see a doctor.

Listen if you don't like our health care system go south. But be prepared to lose everything if you get seriously ill.

Canada has some of the best health care in the world and it's free. Well sort of we pay via our taxes but it doesn't bankrupt you when you need it like the poor bastards down south in the not so great USA.

ramona wrote:

The law states that it's the doctor's call - so it's the law that needs to be changed if the patient is to be kept alive. That's where efforts should be directed. This article is full of lies - especially about Canada's health care system. It is NOT socialized, it's publicly-funded, user-pay. The government does NOT run the Canadian health care system. And it is easy-peasy for doctors to operate outside of it - witness the growing number of for-profit clinics & emergency rooms across the country, to say nothing of provincial governments contracting their workman's comp treatments out to private clinics. Yes, families can use their own money to pay for futile treatment - and go even further into debt on top of their already enormous legal bills. Every Canadian can already buy private insurance to supplement their provincial health care - coverage maxes out at about $75K, just like in the US, then you're on your own. Mr. Golubchuk is IN a religious hospital (Grace is a Salvation Army operation). You can tell the author of this article is in the pocket of the AMA, which continually parrots these tired lies about Canadian health care. Read the Romanow report.

The government DOES RUN the Canadian health care system. Poor old Mr. Golubchuk got lost in the shuffle because his family can't let go and face the reality that we are not immortal creatures. They are to be pitied. And what kind of rabbi would give them such advice? I really wonder where that rabbi's head is at. He's probably just another self-serving power hungry clergyman who doesn't really give a hoot about anybody but himself. Lots of those types out there. The Awareness Center would ditto that.

Manny Toor wrote:

First of all HAVE SOME SYMPATHY FOR THE FAMILY INVOLVED. I really doubt that u would say the same if your father was going through this. Sure he might be what some of u call a "veg" but clearly his family thinks he has reason to live. And religion has a HUGE part in health care!! Religion and life go hand in hand! And it’s the family’s decision to spend their money on lawyers to fight for their father’s life. If our healthcare was not publicly funded most of the middle class people of Canada would have a hard time paying off medical bills we live in a democracy focused on the goals of the majority and the majority needs this public health care. Everyone that pays for health care should receive their opinion of adequate care! Personally I think the court and law should have bare minimum influence on the health care system.

What the family wants in this case is totally unreasonable.

Rodney Graham wrote:

I wasn't surprised when I read about a families fight with Grace Hospital to keep their father alive. They are too quick to 'pull the plug'. It nearly happened to me! I nearly died in ICU at Grace Hospital after I had been ignored for three days on the 3rd floor there after I was admitted for severe pneumonia - the nurses totally ignored me when I said I could not breath. I had pneumonia with complications. They refused to turn up my oxygen and stopped completely coming when I rang the emergency bell.
They had even recommended I be put on palliative care and left to die! Fortunately, a doctor happened to visit the man next to me one day and when he heard me struggling to breath the doctor had me sent to ICU immediately! I nearly died (A nurse told me) shortly after arriving in ICU. I was very fortunate – thank God. Fortunately the doctors gave me medicine when I was sent to HSC to see a specialist --and I've recovered nicely!
I have purchased a med-bracelet – guess what’s on it? If I am ever incapacitated DO NOT SEND ME TO GRACE HOSPITAL! It’s been two years now since that terrifying experience and I’m just glad to be alive
…I learned from a hospital employee of a different hospital where I was taken (Fortunately) that the ‘employees at the Grace had ‘recommended’ I be put on palliative’ care and left to die with no medical assistance in the form of drugs that could save my life. I am extremely fortunate to have been transferred from The Grace Hospital before I succumbed. I am stable now 2 yrs later and living quite well and healthy!
But I wonder how many have died needlessly in Grace Hospital in Winnipeg Manitoba?

Rodney, ever heard the word DEFAMATION? Maybe try getting a dictionary. Who are you to judge this case. You are not a doctor and you are not directly involved in the case. So who are you to DEFAME the hospital? I guess you have to DEFAME someone to get your 15 minutes of fame. Poor you.

podium wrote:

So what has that got to do with a 84 year old who is terminally ill and on life support?
All you have contributed is innuendo. It just doesn't make sense that you could be in a hospital for 3 days and not see a doctor.
Listen if you don't like our health care system go south. But be prepared to lose everything if you get seriously ill.
Canada has some of the best health care in the world and it's free. Well sort of we pay via our taxes but it doesn't bankrupt you when you need it like the poor bastards down south in the not so great USA.

You are right. That guy is a pathetic loser resorting to defaming the hospital because he didn't like the care. No wonder no one wanted to look after him.

Duh wrote:

<quoted text>You are right. That guy is a pathetic loser resorting to defaming the hospital because he didn't like the care. No wonder no one wanted to look after him.

Sounds like you are quite emotional -- Perhaps a nice 'caring' nurse?

Yea, as if we should terminate the severely ill and not give them all the chance to survive so we can save that money - it can go to more important things than people's lives... Namely higher wages for the Winnipeg Grace Hospital nurses and all Winnipeg nurses; they have arrogantly demanded more money or would go to stike in the face of several serious complaints. A lady I met who worked at the Grace for many years siad 'it doesn't matter either how busy it is there -- they would go the same speed -- and that is not very fast!' I guess around $25. pr hr and 15 minute (That they stretch to 30-40 minutes breaks) is not enough for those 'beautiful angels of mercy'. ha ha !!!

All I want to say is if you don't like our health care system go to the oh so wonderful USA.

That's another topic...how pathetic the USA has become. Canada is the best country to live in and so far everyone still likes us...no terrorist attacks.

Lets blame all the mean lazy nurses in winterpeg murdertoba on the USA.