Their view: No clear gain in dispute over Falklands

StillwaterBlue wrote:

<quoted text>
Britain's nuclear deterrent is submarine-based and for all you know may be waiting within a mile or two off the east and west coasts (you have no way of knowing). We could wipe you out in 30 seconds, long before you had a chance to send your rusting, cold-war era missiles across the Atlantic. A national guard of hicks and farmhands from San Bernadino (where?) or Cowpat, Idaho would be irrelevant. AAA nations have nothing to fear from AA+ failures.
GOD SAVE THE QUEEN.

Why do nto do that,Imbecile?/SO you are going to throw agains your own people??The million of so brits descendant and the brits corporations, and aMERICANS AS WELL...tHEY ARE GOING TO NUKE BRITTAIN FIRST! idiot!

Tony wrote:

Protests in Argentina as Prince William begins Falklands deployment
Argentinian protesters have marched on the British embassy in Buenos Aires, burning the Union flag, in protest at the Duke of Cambridge's six-week deployment to the Falklands Islands.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/sou...
The Malvinas Islands need to be given back to Argentina, the Rock of Gibraltar needs to be returned to Spain, and Ireland must be given back to Ireland!

Malvinas given back to Argentina? Argentina had never properly won a contest for those Islands till the Falklands War. The Islands were contested before Argentina was formed and since after. How about you give back the US to all the American Indian natives? I don't think Europe can handle the amount of immigrants needing to return. You can't have one rule for one and another rule for another. Argentinians are mainly made up of Spanish and Italian descendents, the natives got ****ed over and certainly didn't want them there.

The American side of the Revolution was aided by Spain and France, the British side was aided by real American Natives because they knew that the Americans were a threat to their territory. After the Brits left the real American Natives got ****ed over, just as they expected.

The rock of Gibraltar is a tiny little place useful during the second world war. Spain basically had volunteers fighting for both sides rather than go completely against Germany.

The people of Northern Ireland are part of the UK because they want to be and before anyone decides they're not really Irish, then please would all the white americans return to Europe.

Ultimately UKs history doesn't have that many black blots and has been more reasonable (avoiding deaths where possible) than that of other nations.

Poor editing on my part : Argentina had never properly contested for those Islands till the Falklands War.

StillwaterBlue wrote:

<quoted text>
Britain's nuclear deterrent is submarine-based and for all you know may be waiting within a mile or two off the east and west coasts (you have no way of knowing). We could wipe you out in 30 seconds, long before you had a chance to send your rusting, cold-war era missiles across the Atlantic. A national guard of hicks and farmhands from San Bernadino (where?) or Cowpat, Idaho would be irrelevant. AAA nations have nothing to fear from AA+ failures.
GOD SAVE THE QUEEN.

Dude this is pointless, you can't expect every American to be an anglophile and just because they aren't its pointless to get into a rant about what each side will do. Firstly, the intelligence sharing with the USA with the UK is better than with anyother non english speaking country. This shows a high element of trust. Then consider just how many Americans are of British descent and completely anglophile.

Alot of Americans may of sided with the IRA, until 9/11 when they got a taste of terrorism, what they may not know is that most Irish people don't want the IRA, the IRA of today is not what it was when it started. It's not worth supporting Then the hate between Irish and English is largely over rated. My mum is Irish, my Dad English. Hell my Nan told my mum to never marry an Irishman. There maybe black blots in history and I can well understand them, like the potato famine to learn from, in which case Landlords should never leave outside of the country their land is in but every country has these black blots. People just choose to ignore their own. The Queen has visited Ireland peaqcefully, the UK will always back Ireland to the hilt.

America has the greatest military force in the world, the rest of the worlds military doesn't even combine together to compete. All wars with the US are going to go one way. Any country attacking the US is in for a whole lot of hurt.

MrRDAtkinson wrote:

America has the greatest military force in the world, the rest of the worlds military doesn't even combine together to compete. All wars with the US are going to go one way. Any country attacking the US is in for a whole lot of hurt.

America has the best equipped military in the world.

Unfortunately their levels of training mean most of their armed forces are trigger happy amatuers who are often more dangerous than the enemy is.

That's why we keep having wars where we lose more troops to badly trained americans than we do to the enemy.

The Malvinas Islands must be given back to Argentina, the Rock of Gibraltar must be given back to Spain, and Ireland must be given back to Ireland. Period. And there is more than enough proof in this thread if you start reading from the beginning. The claims of Argentina, Spain, and Ireland, are legitimate.

MrRDAtkinson wrote:

Poor editing on my part : Argentina had never properly contested for those Islands till the Falklands War.

GO back to history book..BTW,convince UN,C24,the yanks,Mercosur,UNASUR,the carbean,Rusia,China...uk is a gonner...

Tony wrote:

The Malvinas Islands must be given back to Argentina, the Rock of Gibraltar must be given back to Spain, and Ireland must be given back to Ireland. Period. And there is more than enough proof in this thread if you start reading from the beginning. The claims of Argentina, Spain, and Ireland, are legitimate.

You obviously hate self determination and freedom.

In all the places you mention the people want to remain part of the UK. How much of a chip do you have on your shoulder?

Sadly there cannot be any peace and harmony without justice.

The Malvinas Islands must be given back to Argentina, the Rock of Gibraltar must be given back to Spain, and Ireland must be given back to Ireland. Period. And there is more than enough proof in this thread if you start reading from the beginning. The claims of Argentina, Spain, and Ireland, are legitimate.

UK warns Argentina regarding the Falklands

By DAVID STRINGER
Associated Press

LONDON (AP)-- The British government summoned Argentina's top diplomat to the Foreign Office on Wednesday to explain his country's decision to ask 20 leading companies to stop importing British products and supplies because of the dispute over the Falkland Islands.

Argentine Industry Minister Debora Giorgi told the companies Tuesday they should replace British imports with products from other nations as Argentina stepped up its attempt to pressure London to negotiate about the sovereignty of the islands.

Tensions are rising ahead of the anniversary of the brief war between Argentina and Britain over the Falklands, which began on April 2, 1982, and saw more than 900 people die.

Read more, LINK:

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_BRI...

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The Malvinas Islands must be returned to Argentina, the Rock of Gibraltar must be returned to Spain, and Ireland must be given back to Ireland, certainly France, Spain, Ireland, and the rest of the EU would agree. Justice must be done.

Long live France!

Tout les meilleur,

Tony V.

Tony wrote:

The first settlement on the Malvinas Islands was in 1764. It was named Port St. Louis and was founded by the French navigator and military commander Louis Antoine de Bougainville on Berkeley Sound.
Spain acquired the French colony, and after assuming effective control in 1767, placed the islands under a governor subordinate to the Buenos Aires colonial administration.
From 1776 until 1811 Spain maintained a settlement administered from Buenos Aires as part of the Viceroyalty of the Rio de la Plata.
On 6 November 1820, Colonel David Jewett raised the flag of the United Provinces of the River Plate (Argentina) at Port Louis. Jewett was an American sailor and privateer in the employment of Buenos Aires businessman Patrick Lynch to captain his ship, the frigate Heroína (Lynch had obtained a corsair licence from the Buenos Aires Supreme Director José Rondeau).
In 1828 the Argentines founded a settlement and a penal colony.
From Wikipedia.
So the French found and settled the Malvinas Islands before the British, and the French turned the Malvinas Islands over to Spain, and Spain governed the Malvinas Islands from Buenos Aires, and Argentina was given control of the Malvinas Islands from Spain.
Argentina would not be claiming the Malvinas Islands if they did not have a legitimate claim to the Malvinas Islands.

Argentina did not found a settlement, a German born Hugenot called Vernet founded a settlement after first getting permission to do so from the British because, and this is important, the British owned the islands. Argentina did not exist as we know it today. His licence however did not allow for the penal colony and when the British came to inspect the new settlement they ordered the penal colony to go back to where they had come from but everybody else was free to remain. And because the British payed in hard silver currency, rather than Vernets paper promisroies, many of them chose to stay. Thier families are still there and have been for 6 or 7 generations.

Whatever the British ever did, or whatever you think the British did, they did not do in the Falkland Islands. And whatever the British did, they were doing what everybody else was doing at the same time. This is not an excuse but it is context.

Your knowledge of history is impressive but biased and missing key information.

You sir have an axe to grind.

Phil wrote:

<quoted text>
Argentina did not found a settlement, a German born Hugenot called Vernet founded a settlement after first getting permission to do so from the British because, and this is important, the British owned the islands. Argentina did not exist as we know it today. His licence however did not allow for the penal colony and when the British came to inspect the new settlement they ordered the penal colony to go back to where they had come from but everybody else was free to remain. And because the British payed in hard silver currency, rather than Vernets paper promisroies, many of them chose to stay. Thier families are still there and have been for 6 or 7 generations.
Whatever the British ever did, or whatever you think the British did, they did not do in the Falkland Islands. And whatever the British did, they were doing what everybody else was doing at the same time. This is not an excuse but it is context.
Your knowledge of history is impressive but biased and missing key information.
You sir have an axe to grind.

Phil,uk signed the treaty of friendship and comerce with Argentina in 1825.NO OBJECTION was made then.The first brit objection came in 1829.....It was only for the fishing licences

Malvinense1 wrote:

<quoted text>
Phil,uk signed the treaty of friendship and comerce with Argentina in 1825.NO OBJECTION was made then.The first brit objection came in 1829.....It was only for the fishing licences

I am not sure that I understand you so my apologies if I am reading you wrong but I do not see how the signing of a treaty of friendship strengthens or weakens either argument.It is a treaty of friendship and I would hope co-operation.
The British objection, whenever it came, was to the setting up of the penal colony which was never part of the agreement that the British had with Vernet and this objection had nothing to do with the civilian settlement. Although the penal colony was evicted the civilians were invited to stay and as I have pointed out many of them did stay. They came from all over the world, including what we now know as Argentina and the UK and all walks of life. Their families have been there now for 6 or 7 generations and I believe that their authority should be accepted by all parties. Indeed, this authority IS accepted by the UK.
One day, given enough time and left to their own devices, I believe that the Falkland Islands can become an independent nation in their own right. The UK would back them and support them toward that end. Can Argentina do the same thing?

Phil wrote:

<quoted text>
Argentina did not found a settlement, a German born Hugenot called Vernet founded a settlement after first getting permission to do so from the British because, and this is important, the British owned the islands. Argentina did not exist as we know it today. His licence however did not allow for the penal colony and when the British came to inspect the new settlement they ordered the penal colony to go back to where they had come from but everybody else was free to remain. And because the British payed in hard silver currency, rather than Vernets paper promisroies, many of them chose to stay. Thier families are still there and have been for 6 or 7 generations.
Whatever the British ever did, or whatever you think the British did, they did not do in the Falkland Islands. And whatever the British did, they were doing what everybody else was doing at the same time. This is not an excuse but it is context.
Your knowledge of history is impressive but biased and missing key information.
You sir have an axe to grind.

Don't waste your time replying to that tony guy. he isn't here for a discussion.

He's been proven wrong abnout 50 times just in this thread. His sole purpose is to keep posting his same cut and paste crap in the hope that someone wastes their time giving him an actual reply.

Quite simply he's a troll.

I can read wrote:

<quoted text>
Don't waste your time replying to that tony guy. he isn't here for a discussion.
He's been proven wrong abnout 50 times just in this thread. His sole purpose is to keep posting his same cut and paste crap in the hope that someone wastes their time giving him an actual reply.
Quite simply he's a troll.

No worries. You've gotta try though.

I am not a troll, and I want justice.

The Malvinas Islands must be returned to Argentina, the Rock of Gibraltar must be returned to Spain, and Ireland must be given back to Ireland. Period. And there is more than enough proof in this thread that the claims of Argentina, Spain, and Ireland, are legitimate.

Phil wrote:

<quoted text>
Argentina did not found a settlement, a German born Hugenot called Vernet founded a settlement after first getting permission to do so from the British because, and this is important, the British owned the islands. Argentina did not exist as we know it today. His licence however did not allow for the penal colony and when the British came to inspect the new settlement they ordered the penal colony to go back to where they had come from but everybody else was free to remain. And because the British payed in hard silver currency, rather than Vernets paper promisroies, many of them chose to stay. Thier families are still there and have been for 6 or 7 generations.
Whatever the British ever did, or whatever you think the British did, they did not do in the Falkland Islands. And whatever the British did, they were doing what everybody else was doing at the same time. This is not an excuse but it is context.
Your knowledge of history is impressive but biased and missing key information.
You sir have an axe to grind.

Not right again..

Vernet
By Enrique Oliva, Special People's Cause
Luis Vernet, the governor of the Falklands designated by the government of Buenos Aires, was born in Hamburg, Germany on March 6, 1791. He lived 8 years in Philadelphia, where the signature of his business friends and Kumbhaar Brock served as steward (manager of shipping charges), which allowed him to see the world and bring extensive experience in international trade. Polyglot, explorer, scientifically prepared, colonizer, imaginative, cultured, sociable and tenacious worker, had no trouble making a fortune and use it for the benefit of Argentina, his adopted country.

From Rio de Janeiro to Buenos Aires embarks Vernet learns about the formation of self-government on May 25, 1810. It starts in business with quick success and has important social links in the city. He married with great pomp in the cathedral on August 17, 1819 with Maria Saez, daughter of a wealthy businessman Uruguay (Francisco Sáez). From this union would leave 4 children: Louis, Emilio, Luisa and Sofia.

In 1823 Governor Martin Rodriguez gives his friend Jorge Pacheco permission to settle in the Falkland (Malvinas) to explore the marine wildlife and wild cattle. As Pacheco owes a large sum of money to Vernet, he gives in to this half of the grant of 30,000 miles and agree to associate and planning major projects.

In 1826, Vernet proposes to Buenos Aires which granted the rest of lands ceded to Pacheco to found a colony, except for taxes for 30 years. Bases his request for political, economic and sovereign, given the war in those moments with the Empire of Brazil, who had attempted to land in Patagonia, attacking unsuccessfully in El Carmen. Get the new concession, agreeing to establish a colony in the term of 3 years.

Vernet Emile's brother Luis, near Loreto Sáez, brother of the coloninizer, immediately travel south to explore the land and buildings abandoned homes and prepare to file their families and other settlers. From Buenos Aires, Vernet wrote to friends in Europe to get them interested in participating in the company, informing them of the riches of the Falklands.

On June 10, 1829, Governor Martin Rodriguez and his minister Salvador Maria del Carril decided to appoint a political and military commander in the Falklands and adjacent to Cape Horn in the Atlantic Ocean, designating for that office to Luis Vernet, "taking into account that meets the conditions. "

Just 35 days of the appointment, under the command of a fleet, Luis Vernet back to the Falklands, this time with his wife. Immediately, the new commander is engaged in various tasks. First, according to the decree of Martin Rodriguez, a battery gun under the national flag. Then take other measures, from making a topographical studies on the flora, fauna and climate, through the installation of a seal colony on Staten Island. It is linked personally with the 80 settlers in the Falklands, who advised technically. Promises and fulfills the rapid construction of better houses with timber brought from the Staten Island. It also takes a commitment to give the property space for cultivation and livestock farming. The detailed description of their work, the newspaper is known for leading his cultured wife.

The incessant calls settlers Vernet correspondence explaining the advantages of the place. And people began to arrive from around the globe and in particular gauchos, soon the majority. Everyone gets the land commander, seeds and tools. It is also concerned with success to create an atmosphere of camaraderie and solidarity among the settlers.

The Gauchos came from Buenos Aires prey on wild horses, tamed and domesticated. Various initiatives come to work quickly. A salting meat and fish to serve to supply passing ships and export on their own vessels. Also responsible for the construction, under design and management own a schooner called the "Eagle", leading to a successful conclusion to fish amphibians, manned with 10 men. Build the ship with wood from the Staten Island shipwrecks and metals, all worked in his blacksmith and carpentry shops.

In an industrial line will be with the story by inventing a chemical formula to allow the skins arrive safely at their destination, enduring long trips. From there comes the word "vernetizar" which was broadcast in Argentina and the world. In the pools built by the commander, came to "vernetizar" up to 3,000 hides per day. The invention earned him great prestige and public praise to the Engineer Carlos Pellegrini. There were confirmed his qualities as a scientist

Captain Fitz Roy, who was in the Falklands with Charles Darwin, wrote: "The governor received me with cordiality Vernet. It has a great figure and speaks several languages. His house is a long, low building, one story, with thick stone walls. I found it a good library of works Spanish, German and English. A lively conversation enlivened the meal, which was attended by Governor Vernet, his wife and guests. At night there was music, singing and dancing. In the room was a grand piano, Madame de Vernet, a Buenos Aires, let us hear his excellent voice, which sounded a bit strange 'in the Falklands', where we expected to find some sealers only. "

Luis Vernet showed a relentless faith in their projects. They invested and lost his entire fortune. "... we thought make in a year he said he was finished after five. My partner got discouraged and sold their rights .... I bought 5 ships and lost ... " (act of piracy in English).

The concern of the governor of the Falklands, Tierra del Fuego and its surroundings, for the preservation of species exploited poachers, unsuccessfully requested a warship and cavalry to Buenos Aires. However, with its limited resources, Vernet, after warning the existing restrictions to their respective captains, detains American schooners "Harriet", "Braskwater" and "Superior". With the ships themselves and seized, travels to Buenos Aires to present their action to the prize court, leaving to his second Henry Meteaf. In the absence of efforts by the governor, United States, which recognized the sovereignty of Argentina, attacks with his gunboat "Lexington", commanded by the privateer Silas Duncan, and destroys the work there on a thriving settlement and steadily

The concern of the governor of the Falklands, Tierra del Fuego and its surroundings, for the preservation of species exploited poachers, unsuccessfully requested a warship and cavalry to Buenos Aires. However, with its limited resources, Vernet, after warning the existing restrictions to their respective captains, detains American schooners "Harriet", "Braskwater" and "Superior". With the ships themselves and seized, travels to Buenos Aires to present their action to the prize court, leaving to his second Henry Meteaf. In the absence of efforts by the governor, United States, which recognized the sovereignty of Argentina, attacks with his gunboat "Lexington", commanded by the privateer Silas Duncan, and destroys the work there on a thriving settlement and steadily.

Then on December 31, 1831, relying only on the strength of his Royal Navy, Britain occupied the Falkland Islands in making the colony, which Argentina has continued to demand ever.

The brave, creative and talented Luis Vernet, died in San Isidro (Buenos Aires) at 80 years old, January 7, 1871, after a rough period slanderous judgments against him, he could overcome.

Soon after, General Bartolome Mitre, writing glowingly about Vernet and his "leather condom," said: "He died poor after enrich a country.
http://www.revista-zoom.com.ar/articulo1570.h...