Presiding bishop discusses courage, challenge and uncertainty of leadership

from episcopalchurch:

"Jefferts Schori acknowledged that she is the only woman leader of a member church in the worldwide Anglican Communion, in response to a question about level playing fields.

"After her 2003 election, some of her male counterparts, she said,'were extremely welcoming. Some laughed when they first heard I was elected. They just couldn't conceive of the fact that a woman could lead a church,' she said."

In terms of membership and finances, Jefferts Schori has proved that she could lead a church both into the ground and into the red, respectively.

Joe DeCaro wrote:

from episcopalchurch:
"Jefferts Schori acknowledged that she is the only woman leader of a member church in the worldwide Anglican Communion, in response to a question about level playing fields.
"After her 2003 election, some of her male counterparts, she said,'were extremely welcoming. Some laughed when they first heard I was elected. They just couldn't conceive of the fact that a woman could lead a church,' she said."
In terms of membership and finances, Jefferts Schori has proved that she could lead a church both into the ground and into the red, respectively.

At it again, Joe DeCaro?

Same old formula?

Take a positive story about women in leadership capacities from around the world, showcasing and demonstrating their successes including the Rev. dr. Katherine Jefferts-Schori, and then you attempt to trash the article and Jefferts-Schori in one fell swoop.

Not so fast, misogynist and Episcopalian-hater Joe DeJerk. Caught you at it....again.

RK

RevKen wrote:

<quoted text>
At it again, Joe DeCaro?
Same old formula?
Take a positive story about women in leadership capacities from around the world, showcasing and demonstrating their successes including the Rev. dr. Katherine Jefferts-Schori, and then you attempt to trash the article and Jefferts-Schori in one fell swoop.
Not so fast, misogynist and Episcopalian-hater Joe DeJerk. Caught you at it....again.
RK

Amen brother, amen.........

Lord Rowan of Canterbury, Fashion Enforcer for the Queen and Church of England.

LOL - How noble! How inspired! How sad!

From the article:

"Sometimes the rejection is overt," she added. She described the way she responded when Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams said she could not wear her miter while preaching at Southwark Cathedral in England because women bishops were not yet allowed in the Church of England.

"I was informed before I arrived that I would not be permitted to wear my miter, my hat. I thought, this is pretty ridiculous; I thought I'm not going to offend the dean [of the cathedral], but I'm going to take my miter, I'm not going to let go of this symbol of my office. So I carried it," she said as the gathering cheered and applauded.

"In some sense I created the response that I wasn't going to back down. You have to sometimes work around things," she said amid more laughter and applause. "But we've still got a long way to go," she added.

Joe DeCaro wrote:

from episcopalchurch:
"Jefferts Schori acknowledged that she is the only woman leader of a member church in the worldwide Anglican Communion, in response to a question about level playing fields.
"After her 2003 election, some of her male counterparts, she said,'were extremely welcoming. Some laughed when they first heard I was elected. They just couldn't conceive of the fact that a woman could lead a church,' she said."
In terms of membership and finances, Jefferts Schori has proved that she could lead a church both into the ground and into the red, respectively.

Good commentary Joe.

Joe DeCaro wrote:

from episcopalchurch:
"Jefferts Schori acknowledged that she is the only woman leader of a member church in the worldwide Anglican Communion, in response to a question about level playing fields.
"After her 2003 election, some of her male counterparts, she said,'were extremely welcoming. Some laughed when they first heard I was elected. They just couldn't conceive of the fact that a woman could lead a church,' she said."
In terms of membership and finances, Jefferts Schori has proved that she could lead a church both into the ground and into the red, respectively.

Unfair to put the blame on her, Joe. The death spiral began prior to her election. Her theology and her leadership is just more of the same. The only difference is that in addition to objections relating to TEC's theology, some were moved to separate solely by reason of her gender. In other words, they could stomach apostasy in our leaders, but not the fact that this time a woman was the fornt person espousing it. I would not have objected to a woman in that role if what she preached and espoused was something recognizably Christian.

George wrote:

<quoted text>
Unfair to put the blame on her, Joe. The death spiral began prior to her election. Her theology and her leadership is just more of the same. The only difference is that in addition to objections relating to TEC's theology, some were moved to separate solely by reason of her gender. In other words, they could stomach apostasy in our leaders, but not the fact that this time a woman was the fornt person espousing it. I would not have objected to a woman in that role if what she preached and espoused was something recognizably Christian.

Joel 2:

“And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh; your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, and your young men shall see visions."

Repeated in Act 2:16-18

Don't you believe the Spirit has come?

Why are you being a misogynist when God is against it?

LOL..........

George wrote:

<quoted text>
Unfair to put the blame on her, Joe. The death spiral began prior to her election. Her theology and her leadership is just more of the same ...

Yes, but Schori is still responsible for what happens on her watch, and TEC is coming apart at the seams: regardless of her sex, she is "in command" of this sinking ship.

MiddleWay wrote:

<quoted text>
Joel 2:
“And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh; your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, and your young men shall see visions."
Repeated in Act 2:16-18
Don't you believe the Spirit has come?
Why are you being a misogynist when God is against it?
LOL..........

You missed your remdial reading class MuddledWay. I have no problem with TEC having women bishops or even a woman PB. I know and have experienced the leadership of some very committed and faithful women priests. My post does not even hint at an objection to her ministry premised upon her gender. My objection to her rests in her continuation/perpetuation of a "ministry" designed to destroy TEC and turn it into the tool of princes and principalities rather than the Kink of Kings.

King of Kings that is.

The only approval our Presiding Bishop needs is the membership of TEC and she has that approval from the overwhelming majority of the church in all orders.

Thanks be to God for our elected and anointed leader!

T McCabe wrote:

The only approval our Presiding Bishop needs is the membership of TEC and she has that approval from the overwhelming majority of the church ...

... only after the exodus of that church's orthodox members.

George wrote:

<quoted text>
You missed your remdial reading class MuddledWay. I have no problem with TEC having women bishops or even a woman PB. I know and have experienced the leadership of some very committed and faithful women priests. My post does not even hint at an objection to her ministry premised upon her gender. My objection to her rests in her continuation/perpetuation of a "ministry" designed to destroy TEC and turn it into the tool of princes and principalities rather than the Kink of Kings.

That is their tactic. Make statements for you that you never said and then address those statements. Ken does it constantly and I guess Muddled Way learned from the best. McHeretic is too ignorant to make any arguments at all.

It makes do difference what George says or what Think Again says. It only matters what the Bible says. Paul is clear, when talking about leadership in the church that women should remain silent and they should not teach or exercise authority over the men -- all of which is anchored in "the Law" and in the order of creation, and not in the culture of Paul's day.

Paul was, in fact, counter-culture, as the Bible always is. Paul's culture which was Roman culture freely allowed women to speak, teach, and exercise authority over men at the pagan altars. Paul told the Christian Church in Corinth to do the opposite -- unless they could produce some evidence they alone had received some authorative revelation from God to the contrary. Otherwise, women leading in the church was not accepted in any of churches of God.

If the early Christian church was cultural in all areas, it would not have been persecuted. It was counter-cultural and so it was persecuted.

The great apostasy and falling away of the church in the last days is clearly that the church becomes cultural instead of counter-cultural. Today the church is conforming to the culture of its society rather than letting the church be the light of the world to call on sinners to conform to it and the Word is proclaims.

The consequence? The church is declining. When neither believer nor unbeliever can tell the difference between the church and the world, there is absolutely no reason to stay in the church. Schori is finding that out first hand. She may be able to keep some buildings through lawsuits, but she is losing members and their contributions in droves. So much for the culturally correct church!

Listen to the Word wrote:

It makes do difference what George says or what Think Again says. It only matters what the Bible says. Paul is clear, when talking about leadership in the church that women should remain silent and they should not teach or exercise authority over the men -- all of which is anchored in "the Law" and in the order of creation, and not in the culture of Paul's day.
Paul was, in fact, counter-culture, as the Bible always is. Paul's culture which was Roman culture freely allowed women to speak, teach, and exercise authority over men at the pagan altars. Paul told the Christian Church in Corinth to do the opposite -- unless they could produce some evidence they alone had received some authorative revelation from God to the contrary. Otherwise, women leading in the church was not accepted in any of churches of God.
If the early Christian church was cultural in all areas, it would not have been persecuted. It was counter-cultural and so it was persecuted.
The great apostasy and falling away of the church in the last days is clearly that the church becomes cultural instead of counter-cultural. Today the church is conforming to the culture of its society rather than letting the church be the light of the world to call on sinners to conform to it and the Word is proclaims.
The consequence? The church is declining. When neither believer nor unbeliever can tell the difference between the church and the world, there is absolutely no reason to stay in the church. Schori is finding that out first hand. She may be able to keep some buildings through lawsuits, but she is losing members and their contributions in droves. So much for the culturally correct church!

I believe that a very sound argument can be (and has neen) made that Paul was talking only to the church at Corinth and addressing a problem specific to that community. And there are certainly examples of women in the OT who were leaders, i.e., judges.
Do you "let" women teach Sunday School? If you didn't, you wouldn't have one. Isn't that exercising authority in the church? What about "letting" women pray in church? Only if they do so silently? Remember Paul is also the one who spoke about women prophesying? Only to other women? No man should listen to a woman prophet?
As I said - I don't care. If TEC said no more women priests, it wouldn't phase me in the slightest. But it isn't the issue I choose to die on more sword over.

RevKen wrote:

... Take a positive story about women in leadership capacities from around the world, showcasing and demonstrating their successes including the Rev. dr. Katherine Jefferts-Schori, and then you attempt to trash the article and Jefferts-Schori in one fell swoop.

No where was this article "trashed" and in fact, I was the one who posted it.

But do you seriously think losing four dioceses demonstrates the success of PB Schori?

Joe DeCaro wrote:

<quoted text>
... only after the exodus of that church's orthodox members.

People come and people go. That is the way of the world.

You and Think Again left TEC and I for one can only say:

Thanks be to God!

I prefer a slimmed down church that maintains its Covenant to God over a mega church that panders to the American entertainment mentality.

By the way the mega churches also have problems.

Reference:

One of the bounteous faith titled the Crystal Cathedral in Calif. went smash and filed for insolvency weekday in Southern Calif. after struggling to rise from the debt that exceeds $ 43 million.

Besides mortgage $ 36 million, Orange County-based faith unpaid $ seventy-five meg to a aggregation of 100 vendors for services ranging from promoting to the administer of springy animals in the east and Christmastime services.

Church had been managing commercialism plans on vendors, exclusive a some lawsuits are filed hunt commercialism a aggregation quickly, which encourages alinement bacilliform by creditors to start apart, faith antiquity officials said.

Church building, launched in the mid-1950s from the Rev. parliamentarian H. Schuller Sr., has sequential field layoffs, selection the sort of stations medium the “60 transactions of Power” and oversubscribed concept to meet afloat. To boot, 10,000 member faith deleted this year’s “Glory of Easter” pageant, which attracts thousands of visitors and is the capital pass region.

Vendors cod income by the faith bacilliform a NGO in Apr and united to a moratorium to control commercialism plans with the Crystal Cathedral.

Kristina Oliver, Hemet-based consort provided birdlike chronicle for the “Glory of Christmas” faith container scene, said he doubted he would better full from the $ 57,000 he owed.

Crystal Cathedral was supported in a drive-in theaters and churches fascinated in the address with the noesis of constructive thinking. It features soaring render tower and is an architectural occurrence and traveler destination.

The “Hour of Power” aired, filmed primarily shelter of the cathedral, right saucer attracted cardinal meg audience in 156 countries.

Church activity told the Sun assist conveying and desire move when in bankruptcy.

Crystal Cathedral and another megachurches hit suffered from ceding and turn benevolent giving.

Church saw incomes fall most cardinal proportionality in 2009 and meet can’t revilement prices alacritous sufficiency to refrain feat debt, tells Jim Penner, a faith pastor and chief shaper of “Hour of Power.”

T McCabe wrote:

<quoted text>

I prefer a slimmed down church that maintains its Covenant to God over a mega church that panders to the American entertainment mentality.

Too bad all you have is a slimmed down church. As far as the Covenant with God, that was broken a long time ago.

T McCabe wrote:

<quoted text>
People come and people go. That is the way of the world ...

What a coincidence that the way of the world is also the way of TEC, only in TEC, when the people go, no one comes to take their place on the pew.

Joe DeCaro wrote:

<quoted text>
What a coincidence that the way of the world is also the way of TEC, only in TEC, when the people go, no one comes to take their place on the pew.

We mighty and awe inspiring Episcopalians with are 2% of the US population are really grand. So grand that at almost every Confirmation service I have ever gone to (especially during the Easter Great Vigil of Easter) so many people are received into the church. The vast majority being form members of Joe's own Church of Rome. We graciously accept that bishops from the Church of Rome are indeed in Apostolic Succession as are our own bishops. LOL

There are more Muslims in the US then Episcopalians.