Steel rail transit costs less, but it's noisier

Mr. Mayor made this his want instead of our need. It seems like he wants to spend the states tax money right away. The planning of the rail system is half-a**ed and it won't benefit as well as if it should if it was thought out better. Since our politicians encourage expanding development and not thinking about infrastructure, this train will be needed, especially in the future, but sadly it won't benefit as well as it should. Now it's going to be really loud. I live about 1/2 mile from Farrington Hwy. and sometimes I can hear the buses and sirens passing there. Imagine a noisy train. I strongly oppose this train thing. The Mayor has no interest in what the people think and the people just complain but do nothing. That is why this train thing is going to happen.

As loud as a vacuum cleaner at 5 feet? I've heard they make really good earplugs these days...

Aloha,

Mahalo for another well written article and one that includes and nice product comparison attachment that does a great job recapping at the end.

As you know there are pro's and cons to everything and a person shouting can easily exceed 90 dba.

My close friend has a summer home next to the RR tracks abd its not as Bad as one may think, at the same time, it takes some getting use to.

In town the noise will be dwarfted by other noises during the day and by the time the late night or wee hours approach, many will be sleeping and hopefully not impacted by the noise.

Sound deflection walls would reduce noise levels where needed.

Our future is unravelling as predicted by the late Dr. Richard Smalley, and I am certain that we are headed to a disaster and need to eliminate the use of Oil and related products as quickly as humanly possible.

Slowly but surely we will be SQUEEZED like an orange paying huge prices for most consumer products to include imports due to simple things as transportation and refrigeration as an example.

The longer we wait, more costs will be incurred by materials alone that need to be transported by way of land, air and sea with fuels costs directly billable!

We have a responsibility to future generations to use alternate transportation minimizing emissions and the governent obligated through Environmental Stewardship responsibilities.

There seems to be many experts on Topix regarding this subject and I am curious to hear of your scientific findings and facts.

Goodluck to Mayor Hanneman and those involved. We need champion planning throughout the process!

With Aloha,

Moke Young

I'm in the Netherlands at the moment and due to the noise trains make, they only run between 6am and somewhere between 12 and 1 in the night (there are some exceptions).

In the evening, when there is much less noise production, you can easily hear the steel noise of a train from a couple of miles away.. when the wind is pointed towards your home, it will be even better notable.

It's a shame they choose for this sollution... I am for alternative transports but why not look more into more modern and less noisy sollutions. In Shanghai and germany they have the maglev (magnetic levitation) train, I've been on that train a couple of times and it runs great with a minimum of noise. And same goes for other sollutions.

Sure it might cost a bit more to have a less noisy sollution but the nightrest of people (and not in the last place the animals who may live nearby some parts of the track) will be better and with that, their health will be better than when there is this noisy sollution.

The current proposed sollution might give lots future problems, I hope they will take a better look into it all before they go with this sollution and not let their decision hang on that of 4 people who probably, with all due respect, have not lived nearby tracks long enough to know what they speak about.

Why all the pilikia about the noise. As it is, The Bus decible levels are quite loud. Just go ahead and get the rail system on it's way. The longer you wait, the cost will escalate much more and it will make it harder for the state to move forward on it.

Again, the commute from the Leeward side of town needs a major mass transit alternative and this is one way to solve it.

Mayor Hanneman, just get the job done. Things aren't going to be any better. The longer you all procrastinate on this issue the cost will elevate even higher. With gas prices as it is now near $4.00 gal, I think everyone would be in favor of the Rail System no matter what options of materials to build it with.

Aloha,
Clayton Lum
Coon Rapids MN.
(Ex Kamaaina in Minneapolis)

Kolomona wrote:

Mr. Mayor made this his want instead of our need. It seems like he wants to spend the states tax money right away. The planning of the rail system is half-a**ed and it won't benefit as well as if it should if it was thought out better. Since our politicians encourage expanding development and not thinking about infrastructure, this train will be needed, especially in the future, but sadly it won't benefit as well as it should. Now it's going to be really loud. I live about 1/2 mile from Farrington Hwy. and sometimes I can hear the buses and sirens passing there. Imagine a noisy train. I strongly oppose this train thing. The Mayor has no interest in what the people think and the people just complain but do nothing. That is why this train thing is going to happen.

Are you really out of it, How much time during the day do you want to spend on H-1 to go holo holo to town...Can you afford $4.00 gal for gas????

Moke wrote:

Aloha,
Mahalo for another well written article and one that includes and nice product comparison attachment that does a great job recapping at the end.
As you know there are pro's and cons to everything and a person shouting can easily exceed 90 dba.
My close friend has a summer home next to the RR tracks abd its not as Bad as one may think, at the same time, it takes some getting use to.
In town the noise will be dwarfted by other noises during the day and by the time the late night or wee hours approach, many will be sleeping and hopefully not impacted by the noise.
Sound deflection walls would reduce noise levels where needed.
Our future is unravelling as predicted by the late Dr. Richard Smalley, and I am certain that we are headed to a disaster and need to eliminate the use of Oil and related products as quickly as humanly possible.
Slowly but surely we will be SQUEEZED like an orange paying huge prices for most consumer products to include imports due to simple things as transportation and refrigeration as an example.
The longer we wait, more costs will be incurred by materials alone that need to be transported by way of land, air and sea with fuels costs directly billable!
We have a responsibility to future generations to use alternate transportation minimizing emissions and the governent obligated through Environmental Stewardship responsibilities.
There seems to be many experts on Topix regarding this subject and I am curious to hear of your scientific findings and facts.
Goodluck to Mayor Hanneman and those involved. We need champion planning throughout the process!
With Aloha,
Moke Young

Aloha Moke, I'm glad to see that someone has the right frame of mind about this rail project..Light Rail is the only way to go at this time for Mass Transit for Honolulu and Leeward Oahu.

Aloha,
Clayton in Minneapolis

"The biggest noise impact would be along Salt Lake Boulevard"
Be careful what you ask for, Romy Cachola, you might get it.
Salt
Lake
Urban
Transit
System

Riverboat technology is the quietest

the solution is to build an inland waterway --- first connection Kapolei to Pearl Harbor --- and then you could have a series of locks to get over red hill and then ultimately connect with the Ala Wai

the propulsion system could be a biomass reduction system using cooking oil waste from the Waikiki tourist district

<<<Steel-on-steel technology could be a problem for some residents near the elevated tracks, where trains will pass at up to 55 mph about 400 times a day from 4 a.m. to midnight.>>>

Ya think?

Experiment: run a vacuum cleaner five feet past you 400 times a day. Ask the folks under the airport landing pattern. Yeah, it's a problem.

And all that to serve 7% of the commuters at a cost of $5 billion. Classic government tax, spend and buy the votes program.

But, hey, in 5 years or so you'll be able to go from Kapolei to Waipahu.

When I lived in California, I lived less than a mile from San Diego International Airport. Airplanes constantly taking off, all day and some of the night. Even now, in Ewa Beach, I can hear a lot of the planes headed west. It's something I've grown used to, and it didn't take me long - just a week or so. Maybe I just have the ability to adapt quickly, I don't know.

Why don't we ask the residents of Chicago what kind of noise the El Train creates?

I won't be able to use the train until the Waikiki and Airport spur are added. Wish they could have been in from the start. This would eliminate some tourist needing to rent cars if they go wisk from the airport to their hotel rooms. I only commute from Waikiki to downtown, but will take the train the way it is. It is a start. Eventually I think it will reach everywhere i.e. North Shore. The noise pollution outweighs the negatives. I did my undergrad at Harvard and the commuter rail ran directly behind my house. Never noticed it unless I was in the back yard standing right by it. I also have a house in Mystic, Connecticut where Amtrak runs very close to my property and it is not a problem at all. BUILT IT QUICK.

Wouldn't it make sense to build the highest quality rail given the amount of money already being allocated to this project? Why go second class when upgrades may be apparent in the future. Go for the gold Mufi, don't wiff it and have to go back later to clean up any externalities. We arn't looking for a second class solution here.

Part of the problem in Hawaii is too many people have never left the state, spare a trip to the west coast of U.S.

I also lived in northern Europe for years and always lived VERY close to the rail. Never a problem. Change is good.

This will help restrain development to designated areas. Also I hope this will encourage developing downtown Honolulu significantly.

Density is the area.

I have light rail near my house and near my work.. the noise really isn't that bad, and its not really an eyesore at all.

Even Hawaii had a train system in the old days.. so why is everyone complaining?

Leave it to our city (our mayor) to pick the technology that will inconvience the most.

They're determined that we live out "the price of paradise." Why get the best for Honolulu, even when we're spending billions?

No complain! What's wrong wid you? Let your elders choose!

Btw, it's nice of Sebbe to say build it quick when he's not living next to it all the time.

I do live here all the time, and am adamantly opposed to this boondoggle.

I live in Waikiki & Sebbe, from here you don't need a train to downtown. Cycle, walk, take the bus. If you're driving and complaining about it, you're part of the problem

If you want to experience noise from steel rail transit, stay a night at the Palmer House in Chicago's Loop. Rooms are directly above the train tracks. Everyone at the convention was demanding rooms on the other side of the hotel!

Will steel wheels be able to climb the Pali without switchbacks and other grade reducing features? Rubber tires on concrete or rubber tracks is very quiet. Both Toronto and Paris have quiet train system using similar technology. Plus I imagine that there would be a fair amount of traction for grades. Not to do the airport and waikiki spurs from the get-go is a big mistake.

Let's not lose sight. Everyone is flipping out about noise from steel on steel but noise is just one factor in choosing a technology. Reliability, mature technology, number of available vendors...all of these weigh heavily on the long term cost of the project. Sound walls actually do wonders with noise mitigation, and we're not talking about 10 ft high walls. All you need are 3 ft barriers to redirect the sound upwards.