GM says industry in slump

Jabarten wrote:

Not surprising....
top 2 Excuses for GM (and Ford's and Chrysler's decline): unions, and environmentalists....
Ummm...you considered perhaps that GM and Ford are busy building too many SUV's and Pickups that most Americans can no longer afford to gas up?
Toyota and Honda have quite the large lineup of high MPG vehicles and hybrids...
Heck, come to think of it, I think Mercedes and BMW does too!!...

Honda has a phenomenal product.

Mercedes and BMW are great, and while we have two BMWs in the driveway, I just think the world of Honda.

rootvg wrote:

<quoted text>
Get yourself a degree and move out of NE Ohio. You'll get a job.
Rust Belt states are being strangled by their legions of unskilled and semi-skilled blue collar elderly. They're keeping all the good things that have happened to the rest of the country over the past thirty years from happening there.
You can't expect old people who joined unions and most of whom never made much money to fund educational opportunities they never had for other people's kids. My wife and I left there right after finishing college in 1995 and never looked back. You should probably do the same.
I've been studying this for years. Trust me, that's what's wrong.

:-) Thank you for the kind advice.(pay no attention to that zinging sound).

To simplify, if things continue on the way they are, you and I will be taxed to death. Not everyone is going to get a degree or become an entrepreneur. But regardless, the economy still needs higher wages, that's a fact.

Average U.S. wage is 40k, national debt is extremely high and getting higher. When it comes time to balance the budget, where's the money going to come from? Where's the 40 trillion for social security going to come from? Imagine the mess that's going to be.(please don't say it's those idiots own fault, it's as irrelevant as you advising me to get a college degree ;-)

The idea behind debt is to grow. When debt continues to outpace economic growth, you have a serious problem.

San Antone Bill wrote:

<quoted text>
Excellent mention of the UAW. The entire south has right to work laws. Which means you are not forced to join a union ( UAW ) to be employed hmm by Toyota. True Toyota is paying $16@ hr but raises the pay to $ 20 @ after a year or so.
The new housing market is still building here with Toyota plant employees doing the buying. Seems they can afford to buy at those wages.

I know that you are correct about the Toyota wages there. However, other Toyota plants, Kentucky, Indiana pay about $5 more. I do think that $20 will be the new standard for any new hires. Obviously after the UAW took wage cuts in some classifications down to $14 hr, that still is very good.
BMW here pays $26 after 3 years service, plus bonuses have been running an extra 10%

rootvg wrote:

<quoted text>
Get yourself a degree and move out of NE Ohio. You'll get a job.
Rust Belt states are being strangled by their legions of unskilled and semi-skilled blue collar elderly. They're keeping all the good things that have happened to the rest of the country over the past thirty years from happening there.
You can't expect old people who joined unions and most of whom never made much money to fund educational opportunities they never had for other people's kids. My wife and I left there right after finishing college in 1995 and never looked back. You should probably do the same.
I've been studying this for years. Trust me, that's what's wrong.

you arent old enough to have been studying for years

Next wrote:

<quoted text>
:-) Thank you for the kind advice.(pay no attention to that zinging sound).
To simplify, if things continue on the way they are, you and I will be taxed to death. Not everyone is going to get a degree or become an entrepreneur. But regardless, the economy still needs higher wages, that's a fact.
Average U.S. wage is 40k, national debt is extremely high and getting higher. When it comes time to balance the budget, where's the money going to come from? Where's the 40 trillion for social security going to come from? Imagine the mess that's going to be.(please don't say it's those idiots own fault, it's as irrelevant as you advising me to get a college degree ;-)
The idea behind debt is to grow. When debt continues to outpace economic growth, you have a serious problem.

We live in the SF Bay Area. If you don't have a degree here, you're not even human.

It was sort of like that in Los Angeles and even in Dallas, when we moved there twelve years ago.

concerned citizen wrote:

<quoted text>
you arent old enough to have been studying for years

Well, my wife and I saw what was happening years ago in Ohio and figured we needed to get the hell out.

Today, we're making six figures each and living in northern Cal. Yes, the money doesn't go as far but we have jobs with pensions and two really nice cars in the driveway that are paid for.

What I'm trying to say is that we're nobody special. We're both Akron U grads (decent university with a lousy reputation) who took our cheap degrees, got entry level corporate jobs and then went back to school again for technical training in the mid nineties.

I said what I said about NE Ohio because it's TRUE. You're being held back by your elderly population and by others who are threatened by any kind of change from the status quo.

Ohio needs some VERY strong leadership, including a governor who isn't afraid to take risks and who isn't afraid to piss off a few sacred cows for the greater good. When there was talk of Betty Montgomery running for governor, I said they should elect her, hand her a baseball bat and lock the door behind her in the House chambers with the Legislature. It was sound advice then and it's sound advice now.

Next wrote:

<quoted text>
:-) Thank you for the kind advice.(pay no attention to that zinging sound).

More like a WHHHOOOSH sound!!! Too funny! Funnier yet, I'm in the guys area several times a year. Bragging up a low 6 out there wouldn't fly!

RaythJunky wrote:

<quoted text>
More like a WHHHOOOSH sound!!! Too funny! Funnier yet, I'm in the guys area several times a year. Bragging up a low 6 out there wouldn't fly!

You are correct. Having one six figure salary here isn't a big deal. Having two of them IS...plus guaranteed pensions and cars that are paid for.

And even so, it's much more than we would have ever had in Ohio.

TFC wrote:

Bulls*1t!! We are killing ourselves because the tree huggers and enviro wienies would STFU and let us drill our own oil, then the prices would go down and we could afford to drive these trucks and suv's....until then we are at the mercy of outside sources

We're killing ourselves because there are only so many resources (finite amount of good land, water, oil, food, etc., for a MAXIMUM number of people); remember it's a numbers game....sustainability is only one “crossing point” on the chart that would have resources, and population on the graph, they WILL intersect at some point (another "Tipping Point”, just like Gobal Warming). After that point someone is going to “loose”(IE: not have gas, cars, a home, food, clean water, clean air, etc.) Sure we will have deaths, wars, and disease that will reduce some population, but we will still be adding more that we lose….so,“Mr. I don’t care about anybody else but ME and my Big SUV”; who do you think is going to wind-up with the problems? Apparently not you, maybe it will be you children, or your grandchildren? Either way, it can only be avoided by conserving what we have, changing the way we treat the planet, and yes in some yet undefined way, figure out how we can function as a planet with no population growth, especially considering the many different cultures, religions, corporations, and goverments that all require growth under the current “profit” motive. A system that gives the most to the top 1 to 3% of the super wealthy, and the rest of the planet can “fend for themselves”. In the end, it doesn't matter if the glass is half empty, or half full; if you don't have anything to put into the glass.