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George N
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Kent Dawg wrote: Maybe for you. Toyota is doing great. Of course, they don't have a cancer eating away at them called the UAW. How right you are! On the pretext of local issues, there is a strike against the GM plant that makes the fast-selling Chevy Malibu, one of the company's few bright spots. This is in spite of GM's recent report of another 3 billion dollar loss. David Cole, president of the Center for Automotive Research in Ann Arbor called this stupidity of the highest order. The UAW is locked in a months-long strike at American Axle, supplier for GM trucks and SUVs. This ridiculous strike is an indirect way of pressuring GM to intervene at American Axle. I must admit that the UAW is good at negotiating exit packages for the hundreds of thousands that have lost their jobs. Compare this to the Toyota, Nissan, BMW, Mercedes, and Hyundai plants all over the south that are still hiring. Kia has a plant scheduled for opening early next year in Georgia, and Toyota recently announced still another plant in Mississippi. No wonder organizing these plants has fallen flat.
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TFC
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Bulls*1t!! We are killing ourselves because the tree huggers and enviro wienies would STFU and let us drill our own oil, then the prices would go down and we could afford to drive these trucks and suv's....until then we are at the mercy of outside sources
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George N
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These idiots in the UAW just might be successful in putting GM out of business and committing suicide at the same time:
From the Detroit Free Press:
The UAW local that represents workers at a General Motors Corp. stamping plant near Mansfield, Ohio, have threatened to go on strike at 10 a.m. Thursday, GM spokesman Dan Flores said Tuesday.
The four other UAW locals that issued strike threat notices at the same time as Mansfield have now either reached tentative contract agreements or gone on strike.
The strikes are often said to be related to the UAW's strike against American Axle & Manufacturing, which is now in its 12th week. On Tuesday, the company said an agreement is close, but held up by a few outstanding issues.
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George N
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Kent Dawg wrote: <quoted text> Agreed! We recently found the largest oil reserve in the history of this country in N. Dakota and there is plenty of oil in Alaska. The car manufacturers has the technology to get 60 mpg but refuses to build an engine that will do. They will be required to implement this in the future, but they could now if they wanted to. I'm afraid the 60mpg engine is one of those enduring myths akin to the 100mpg carburetor. I have been in the auto industry since 1965, and I can assure you a 60mpg that is possible with today's technology would be one you would not buy. Politicians have tried to repeal the laws of economics. They can't do that, nor can the laws of physics and thermodynamics be repealed. Our best bet will be plug-in hybrids.
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Ahau Kin
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"We are killing ourselves because the tree huggers and enviro wienies would STFU and let us drill our own oil, then the prices would go down and we could afford to drive these trucks and suv's.."
The sentence is grammatically incorrect and difficult to decipher, but whatever.....
The so - called tree huggers and enviros serve a useful purpose. They are attempting to stall or slow environmental degradation, which is a well known paradigm for the collapse of civilizations.
Had there been tree huggers on Easter Island, they would not have utterly deforested their island making and moving their silly statues around.
When the last tree came down, all making stopped and they self - destructed in a frenzy of internecine warfare.(i.e., their civilization quickly collapsed.)
Think it over before making such statements about environmental activists.
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George N
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Ahau Kin wrote: "We are killing ourselves because the tree huggers and enviro wienies would STFU and let us drill our own oil, then the prices would go down and we could afford to drive these trucks and suv's.."
The sentence is grammatically incorrect and difficult to decipher, but whatever.....
The so - called tree huggers and enviros serve a useful purpose. They are attempting to stall or slow environmental degradation, which is a well known paradigm for the collapse of civilizations.
Had there been tree huggers on Easter Island, they would not have utterly deforested their island making and moving their silly statues around.
When the last tree came down, all making stopped and they self - destructed in a frenzy of internecine warfare.(i.e., their civilization quickly collapsed.)
Think it over before making such statements about environmental activists. Paul Ehrich in his 1968 book "The Population Bomb" predicted that 60 million people would die of starvation by the year 2000 in the US alone. Every alarmist over the ensuing decades has been proven wrong. I remember the 1976 Newsweek cover predicting the dire consequences of a new ice age.
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Wise Use Environmentalist
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Ahau Kin wrote: "We are killing ourselves because the tree huggers and enviro wienies would STFU and let us drill our own oil, then the prices would go down and we could afford to drive these trucks and suv's.."
The sentence is grammatically incorrect and difficult to decipher, but whatever.....
The so - called tree huggers and enviros serve a useful purpose. They are attempting to stall or slow environmental degradation, which is a well known paradigm for the collapse of civilizations.
Had there been tree huggers on Easter Island, they would not have utterly deforested their island making and moving their silly statues around.
When the last tree came down, all making stopped and they self - destructed in a frenzy of internecine warfare.(i.e., their civilization quickly collapsed.)
Think it over before making such statements about environmental activists. Right. So, if the enviro-wackos, say, would have been around during the little ice age of the middle ages, they could have stopped Greenland (it was named Greenland because it was once green during the middle ages warming period, not because the Vikings were trying to fool people) from icing over and forcing the inhabitants to flee? Right, cuz the enviro-wackos have magic powers? I recommend "Unstoppable Global Warming: Every 1500 Years" by S. Fred Singer. Might make you think a little differently about the fraud being dealt to us by alarmists and oportunists. This gentleman has many more credentials than Al Gore when it comes to this subject. Many of these enviro policies are having a detrimental effect on the economy without having the desired enviromental effects (ex. Biofuels). These are also the people who shouted down Nuclear energy. They also successfully banned DDT almost everywher in the world. Millions of people died of mosquito born illnesses in poorer countries across the world because of the stuborness of these enviro-wackos. They couldn't admit they maybe made a mistake about the effects of DDT, until a year or two ago. Why aren't the libs crying 'the wackos lied, millions and millions died'? So, you see, I would argue the enviro-wackos do more harm than good.
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concerned citizen
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Kent Dawg wrote: <quoted text> Agreed! We recently found the largest oil reserve in the history of this country in N. Dakota and there is plenty of oil in Alaska. The car manufacturers has the technology to get 60 mpg but refuses to build an engine that will do. They will be required to implement this in the future, but they could now if they wanted to. largest oil reserve in the history of this country? no way. how about a cite to back up that bogus claim. and "plenty of oil" in Alaska? well we use plenty of oil every day - 22 million barrels each and every day - wrap your head around that figure
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Joined: Mar 4, 2007
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George N wrote: <quoted text>
I'm afraid the 60mpg engine is one of those enduring myths akin to the 100mpg carburetor. I have been in the auto industry since 1965, and I can assure you a 60mpg that is possible with today's technology would be one you would not buy. Politicians have tried to repeal the laws of economics. They can't do that, nor can the laws of physics and thermodynamics be repealed. Our best bet will be plug-in hybrids. Yes, and this is precisely what Alan Greenspan says we should have. He talks about it in his new book.
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Joined: Mar 4, 2007
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George N wrote: These idiots in the UAW just might be successful in putting GM out of business and committing suicide at the same time:
From the Detroit Free Press:
The UAW local that represents workers at a General Motors Corp. stamping plant near Mansfield, Ohio, have threatened to go on strike at 10 a.m. Thursday, GM spokesman Dan Flores said Tuesday.
The four other UAW locals that issued strike threat notices at the same time as Mansfield have now either reached tentative contract agreements or gone on strike.
The strikes are often said to be related to the UAW's strike against American Axle & Manufacturing, which is now in its 12th week. On Tuesday, the company said an agreement is close, but held up by a few outstanding issues. There are signs that the guys on top of General Motors are very aware of the UAW's precarious situation and are making plans to push progressively more of their production offshore. We've only seen the first act. Alfa Romeo and Fiat are supposedly coming back into this market. Hyundais and Kias sell more units and their quality continues to improve with each passing year. There's talk of Volkswagen bringing their fuel efficient pickup trucks back in 2011 or 2012.(Remember those?) And then, there's the Chinese and the Indians. That'll be a nightmare. Chrysler is already struggling. Ford is making money everywhere but in the States. General Motors is also doing well overseas (what is it about the Chinese and Buicks?) and the key to their future may very well be in Asia. It very well be that for various reasons, we're not going to have a domestic auto industry. Maybe that decision has already been made. The Brits don't really have one anymore, since Rolls was bought by BMW and Land Rover/Jaguar were foreign owned for a number of years before the Indians got hold of them. I think Peugeot is owned by Nissan. All of this has incredible potential negative impact for NE Ohio. I'm telling everyone I know there who isn't a doctor or lawyer or nurse or otherwise has a lot of money to get out while their homes are still worth something.
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George N
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rootvg wrote: <quoted text>
There are signs that the guys on top of General Motors are very aware of the UAW's precarious situation and are making plans to push progressively more of their production offshore.
We've only seen the first act. Alfa Romeo and Fiat are supposedly coming back into this market. Hyundais and Kias sell more units and their quality continues to improve with each passing year. There's talk of Volkswagen bringing their fuel efficient pickup trucks back in 2011 or 2012.(Remember those?)
And then, there's the Chinese and the Indians. That'll be a nightmare.
Chrysler is already struggling. Ford is making money everywhere but in the States. General Motors is also doing well overseas (what is it about the Chinese and Buicks?) and the key to their future may very well be in Asia.
It very well be that for various reasons, we're not going to have a domestic auto industry. Maybe that decision has already been made. The Brits don't really have one anymore, since Rolls was bought by BMW and Land Rover/Jaguar were foreign owned for a number of years before the Indians got hold of them. I think Peugeot is owned by Nissan.
All of this has incredible potential negative impact for NE Ohio.
I'm telling everyone I know there who isn't a doctor or lawyer or nurse or otherwise has a lot of money to get out while their homes are still worth something. You are an astute observer of the auto industry. I am pulling for Ohio, since I have rental property there (I am thinking of dumping it though. Maybe it is wishful thinking that the value will recover). I am at a loss how the Detroit Three (no longer the "big three) can survive given the competition from the transplants and the offshore manufacturers. My work has taken me into these plants here in the south. The difference is night and day between them and the plants I used to visit in the unionized north. The attitude is one of "how do we improve things to make our jobs more secure?" Instead, in Ohio and Michigan, it is (with some exceptions of course) "how do we screw these bastards?" Paying $70 an hour in wages and benefits to have graffiti like "Fomoco is a Mofoco" written on bathroom walls is irrational.
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westside johnny
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Kent Dawg wrote: Maybe for you. Toyota is doing great. Of course, they don't have a cancer eating away at them called the UAW. OMG! maybe they followed pop culture and just built big gas guzzling SUV's for too long because that's what america wanted. it was so cool to drive around getting 12 mpg. toyota built good reliable transportation that got better gas milage. don't beat up on people cause they make a good buck. they work hard all day long. lets see the executives work the line. they make a fortune. would you complain about that?
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George N
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Judged:
1
westside johnny wrote: <quoted text>
OMG! maybe they followed pop culture and just built big gas guzzling SUV's for too long because that's what america wanted. it was so cool to drive around getting 12 mpg. toyota built good reliable transportation that got better gas milage. don't beat up on people cause they make a good buck. they work hard all day long. lets see the executives work the line. they make a fortune. would you complain about that? Yes it can be hard work, but it takes no training or preparation to speak of. Please don't tell me what an auto plant is like or about the people who work in them. There are more than the usual percentage of slackers in a UAW plant. Gaming the disability system and every other trick is common. I have worked for GM and Chrysler and several suppliers since the mid-60s. Please don't blame the Detroit Three management for selling what was profitable at the time. Fact: UAW contracts made it impossible to make money on smaller cars.
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“Er...Protector of Free Speech?”
Joined: Mar 25, 2008
The AKR
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"GM says the industry is in a slump."
Good call, GM. Only about 12 months behind the curve, but still, good call. Apparently that whole denial thing didn't pay off for ya'? Too bad.
Meanwhile, Toyata is killin' ya! Sorry bought your luck!
Recommendation: Buy imports. The domestics won't be around to service you car.
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San Antone Bill
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George N wrote: <quoted text>
How right you are! On the pretext of local issues, there is a strike against the GM plant that makes the fast-selling Chevy Malibu, one of the company's few bright spots. This is in spite of GM's recent report of another 3 billion dollar loss.
David Cole, president of the Center for Automotive Research in Ann Arbor called this stupidity of the highest order.
The UAW is locked in a months-long strike at American Axle, supplier for GM trucks and SUVs. This ridiculous strike is an indirect way of pressuring GM to intervene at American Axle.
I must admit that the UAW is good at negotiating exit packages for the hundreds of thousands that have lost their jobs. Compare this to the Toyota, Nissan, BMW, Mercedes, and Hyundai plants all over the south that are still hiring. Kia has a plant scheduled for opening early next year in Georgia, and Toyota recently announced still another plant in Mississippi. No wonder organizing these plants has fallen flat. Excellent mention of the UAW. The entire south has right to work laws. Which means you are not forced to join a union ( UAW ) to be employed hmm by Toyota. True Toyota is paying $16@ hr but raises the pay to $ 20 @ after a year or so. The new housing market is still building here with Toyota plant employees doing the buying. Seems they can afford to buy at those wages.
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Next
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Bergermeister wrote: Recommendation: Buy imports. The domestics won't be around to service you car. That's what I say. Buy imports, outsource more tech work. Let's get rid of everything except low wage service jobs. Anyone with money invested or anyone left making over 20k per year would get taxed to death, since they would be the only source of income. Wouldn't that be great? I'm all for it.
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concerned citizen
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Kent Dawg wrote: <quoted text> Here ya go:
America is sitting on top of a super massive 200 billion barrel Oil Field that could potentially make America Energy Independent and until now has largely gone unnoticed.
Moron, Google in "oil found in North Dakota" unless you're too stupid to type.
In the next 30 days the USGS (U.S. Geological Survey) will release a new report giving an accurate resource assessment of the Bakken Oil Formation that covers North Dakota and portions of South Dakota and Montana. With new horizontal drilling technology it is believed that from 175 to 500 billion barrels of recoverable oil are held in this 200,000 square mile reserve that was initially discovered in 1951. The USGS did an initial study back in 1999 that estimated 400 billion recoverable barrels were present but with prices bottoming out at $10 a barrel back then the report was dismissed because of the higher cost of horizontal drilling techniques that would be needed, estimated at $20-$40 a barrel.
It was not until 2007, when EOG Resources of Texas started a frenzy when they drilled a single well in Parshal N.D. that is expected to yield 700,000 barrels of oil that real excitement and money started to flow in North Dakota. Marathon Oil is investing $1.5 billion and drilling 300 new wells in what is expected to be one of the greatest booms in Oil discovery since Oil was discovered in Saudi Arabia in 1938.
The US imported about 14 million barrels of Oil per day in 2007 , which means US consumers sent about $340 Billion Dollars over seas building palaces in Dubai and propping up unfriendly regimes around the World, if 200 billion barrels of oil at $90 a barrel are recovered in the high plains the added wealth to the US economy would be $18 Trillion Dollars which would go a long way in stabilizing the US trade deficit and could cut the cost of oil in half in the long run. so you call me a moron and suggest I am too stupid to type because I never googled the words you did? sigh, that ego must be a huge weight to carry through life. Its shale oil.... long known throught the west and fraught with costs and problems "harvesting" it. when oil is at $200+ barrel, shale oil will be valuable..but then you wont be able to afford gas.
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Next
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concerned citizen wrote: <quoted text>
Its shale oil.... long known throught the west and fraught with costs and problems "harvesting" it. when oil is at $200+ barrel, shale oil will be valuable..but then you wont be able to afford gas. Plus, they haven't even started on it yet. They have yet to build the equipment and set it up on site. Then drill holes, install heaters to cook the shale for a few years before you can siphon any oil out. Then you need AC units to freeze the ground around the site in hopes of containing the oil/grime to the site. The power needed for the heating/cooling could require a nuclear power plant, so you may have to build one of those while you're at it. After that, you have to hope you've contained the grime from the cooked shale so doesn't leak into the water table. It's gunna be a while. Probably better off working on a better battery for an electric car, along with wind/solar power and more nuke plants to charge them.
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Joined: Feb 22, 2008
NE Ohio, Central FL, NE KS
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Not surprising....
top 2 Excuses for GM (and Ford's and Chrysler's decline): unions, and environmentalists....
Ummm...you considered perhaps that GM and Ford are busy building too many SUV's and Pickups that most Americans can no longer afford to gas up?
Toyota and Honda have quite the large lineup of high MPG vehicles and hybrids...
Heck, come to think of it, I think Mercedes and BMW does too!!...
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Joined: Mar 4, 2007
ISP Location:
United States
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Next wrote: <quoted text>
That's what I say. Buy imports, outsource more tech work. Let's get rid of everything except low wage service jobs.
Anyone with money invested or anyone left making over 20k per year would get taxed to death, since they would be the only source of income. Wouldn't that be great? I'm all for it. Get yourself a degree and move out of NE Ohio. You'll get a job. Rust Belt states are being strangled by their legions of unskilled and semi-skilled blue collar elderly. They're keeping all the good things that have happened to the rest of the country over the past thirty years from happening there. You can't expect old people who joined unions and most of whom never made much money to fund educational opportunities they never had for other people's kids. My wife and I left there right after finishing college in 1995 and never looked back. You should probably do the same. I've been studying this for years. Trust me, that's what's wrong.
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Judge it!
Scorpio
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