American Axle Proposal Includes Closing Three Plants

seA n wrote:

<quoted text>the real truth wouldn't know the real truth if it bit him on his a$$. every topic he spreads his "i'mm better than you " disease . and these aren't "low skilled" jobs....are you a machinist?? can the real truthh buildd car parts that need precision ? all the "low skilled" workers build YOUR car parts so YOU can go an be a "businessman"....my cousin steve rogers worked there forever...and he's no dummy by any means . just because you may not be "white collar " doesn't means you don't have an education. the only reason these companies leave is so the suits can get richer and richer ... saving money my a$$...it's all about GREED!!!mo money ,mo money!

No, I'm not a machinist, never have been, never will be. But the truth is that a Mexican can be a machinist. But a Mexican cannot do my job.

And if you have a education that's worth anything, why don't you just become one of the suits? Because you can't, and your greed is just killing you on that one, isn't it?(LOL)

Truth hurts, doesn't it!(LOL)

The Real Real Truth wrote:

<quoted text>
Right, think like unions, treat people good and you will get a good product. That certainly explains why every year the top 10 best cars are all foreign, non-union made. And how much money is GM and Ford making now, with the UAW getting pretty much the best treatment of any workers in the country? They're losing money hand over fist. You need to wake up!

Five out of the top ten cars according to January'08 sales were made in the USA...3 chevy's, a pontiac and the ford focus.

The top five were Nissan, Honda and Toyota's...also, it doesn't appear that you're aware that Nissan, Honda and Toyota plants outside the US are unionized...

Never having worked in a union environment, it always amazes me how mis-informed people are, and then openly pass judgement without knowledge or fact...If you're going to call yourself the "Real Real Truth", perhaps you should look elsewhere for some "real REAL information" first...facts and truths that you imagine to be fact and truth in your head do not make them real...Maybe you should change your moniker to "Cliff Clavin".

Done like dinner wrote:

<quoted text>
Five out of the top ten cars according to January'08 sales were made in the USA...3 chevy's, a pontiac and the ford focus.
The top five were Nissan, Honda and Toyota's...also, it doesn't appear that you're aware that Nissan, Honda and Toyota plants outside the US are unionized...
Never having worked in a union environment, it always amazes me how mis-informed people are, and then openly pass judgement without knowledge or fact...If you're going to call yourself the "Real Real Truth", perhaps you should look elsewhere for some "real REAL information" first...facts and truths that you imagine to be fact and truth in your head do not make them real...Maybe you should change your moniker to "Cliff Clavin".

From Consumer Reports:

Overall, the best cars sold in the U.S. are made by Honda. That's the conclusion of a recent analysis conducted by Consumer Reports that looks at the reliability, performance, fuel economy, comfort, interior fit and finish, and ergonomics of 262 vehicles we've recently tested.

Honda, with an overall score of 78, is followed closely by Toyota (75) and Subaru (72). BMW, Mazda, Nissan, and Volkswagen are tied at 71, after rounding.

Detroit automakers garnered some of the lowest scores, but we have seen some significant signs of improvement in Ford and GM vehicles this past year.

For the entire article, see http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/new-c...

Let me know what you think about this, Cliff!

The Real Real Truth wrote:

<quoted text>
No, I'm not a machinist, never have been, never will be. But the truth is that a Mexican can be a machinist. But a Mexican cannot do my job.
And if you have a education that's worth anything, why don't you just become one of the suits? Because you can't, and your greed is just killing you on that one, isn't it?(LOL)
Truth hurts, doesn't it!(LOL)

sure theres no "businesses in mexico. no "white collar" workers. no one in mexico owns a computer. in mexico city(pop.25,000,000) not one "business owner . no skyscrapers or luxury hotels . no millionaires in mexico.no fancy cars....it's just a slum huh? i doubt that.

seA n wrote:

<quoted text>sure theres no "businesses in mexico. no "white collar" workers. no one in mexico owns a computer. in mexico city(pop.25,000,000) not one "business owner . no skyscrapers or luxury hotels . no millionaires in mexico.no fancy cars....it's just a slum huh? i doubt that.

Well, I'm certainly not going to lose sleep over being replaced by a Mexican, how about you?

i won't lose any sleep over it either....all i'm saying is there's bound to be one mexican that can do any job....they can't all be stupid or unskilled or not computer savy.which is what you said..."there isn't a mexican that can do my job" i bet there is. its good your company isn't moving there , shows they have some pride and confidence in their employees

The Real Real Truth wrote:

<quoted text>
And if your not making any money, how do you do research so you can make better cars? Yes, if they were quality cars they would be selling, and they would be good value. But when you automatically have to add on an additional $1500 per car just to pay for retiree health care, well then you don't have much money to do anything else, do you?
People don't mind paying more for quality, but in the case of US cars, your paying more and not getting the quality. Thus, something has got to give. The unions need to understand this. One thing a company can do is be more proficient, but unfortunately the unions stand in the way of production with their union rules.

I agree with several points, but...

Several years ago GM made the fateful decision not to retool when challenged by very popular new models from Toyota and Honda... A steady decline at that point turned into a precipitous drop, one which continues today.. GM, bloated with cash at that time, decided to run things on the cheap.. That was a management decision not a union one!!! If anyone can add specifics I would appreciate it..

Also, GM has transfered the healthcare liability for retiress and active employees to the UAW... Do your homework :)

The Real Real Truth wrote:

<quoted text>
From Consumer Reports:
Overall, the best cars sold in the U.S. are made by Honda. That's the conclusion of a recent analysis conducted by Consumer Reports that looks at the reliability, performance, fuel economy, comfort, interior fit and finish, and ergonomics of 262 vehicles we've recently tested.
Honda, with an overall score of 78, is followed closely by Toyota (75) and Subaru (72). BMW, Mazda, Nissan, and Volkswagen are tied at 71, after rounding.
Detroit automakers garnered some of the lowest scores, but we have seen some significant signs of improvement in Ford and GM vehicles this past year.
For the entire article, see http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/new-c...
Let me know what you think about this, Cliff!

Taken from:

http://www.carbuyersnotebook.com/archives/200...

February 5, 2008
Top Ten Best Selling Cars in the U.S.-- January 2008
The top ten best selling cars in the United States for January 2008 are led once again by Japanese automakers, taking up the top five positions. General Motors has four vehicles on the list, rounded out by the Ford Focus, in the #10 slot.

The top ten best selling cars in the U.S. for January '08 are as follows:

1. Toyota Camry: 31,601
2. Honda Accord: 23,957
3. Nissan Altima: 21,635
4. Honda Civic: 20,993
5. Toyota Corolla: 20,736
6. Chevrolet Impala: 17,544
7. Chevrolet Cobalt: 17,310
8. Chevrolet Malibu: 14,105
9. Pontiac G6: 13,942
10. Ford Focus: 11,600

As most of your posts, you never look for the facts.
Consunmer Reports judges what's best based on their tests and opinions.

The list I have is from an ACTUAL FACT - SALES. Granted, it is data from February of 2008, but that is the most recent I could find...At any rate, please tell me that as a so-called businessman, you'd rather base your business on an independent agencies opinions, rather than actual sales. Do you mind if I ask what type of business you are in? I wouldn't dare ask for specifics, but I'm curious.

Also, I did mention that the top five in actual sales were foreign made cars. And those foreign plants,(all three of them), employ union workers in their facilities, something that you also wrongly portrayed as one of your "facts".

Interesting-you guys are either not working or using company time on your little computers?? Sooo my mechanic tells me that I need tie rods-I ask how much?? He says Chinese about 20 bucks-will last about 1 year, USA Made not sure but more and will last the life of the vehicle. Thank you Union Bors/Sisters for making me feel safe!! I will spend the money on USA Made--you pay for what you get--The potholes in the Falls are awful!!
Mr. Real Truth Business Man--business slow? Strike got anything to do with it?? or you one of those people taking advantage of your non-union or self employed businesses? You seem to have so much time--Union People earn their money--you should try it sometime--that is if you are smart enough!!

Strikers Wife wrote:

Interesting-you guys are either not working or using company time on your little computers?? Sooo my mechanic tells me that I need tie rods-I ask how much?? He says Chinese about 20 bucks-will last about 1 year, USA Made not sure but more and will last the life of the vehicle. Thank you Union Bors/Sisters for making me feel safe!! I will spend the money on USA Made--you pay for what you get--The potholes in the Falls are awful!!
Mr. Real Truth Business Man--business slow? Strike got anything to do with it?? or you one of those people taking advantage of your non-union or self employed businesses? You seem to have so much time--Union People earn their money--you should try it sometime--that is if you are smart enough!!

First, the only diff. between the tie rods is the box. Both made overseas, box for us co.(possibly
trw) cost more. Same part.
Second, what concern is it of yours if RRT is self employed and posting here during work? jealous? If he is working for someone else and posting during work, you should understand because your husband usually slacks at work too.
Why aren't you at work? You should be doing doubles to make up for hubby's lack of income. Come on you will now have to wear the pants in the family. Hehehehe

I gots copper from day plant, day chase me down but i got my buggy outa there.

seA n wrote:

i won't lose any sleep over it either....all i'm saying is there's bound to be one mexican that can do any job....they can't all be stupid or unskilled or not computer savy.which is what you said..."there isn't a mexican that can do my job" i bet there is. its good your company isn't moving there , shows they have some pride and confidence in their employees

No, actually it's one business of many that can't move, if anything it could expand there, but not move. Even before it could move it would be bought by someone else who would keep it here. It's a service industry company, and there are plenty to service is this area, thus no need to move. BTW - it's an industry not going away, ever.

Done like dinner wrote:

<quoted text>
Taken from:
http://www.carbuyersnotebook.com/archives/200...
February 5, 2008
Top Ten Best Selling Cars in the U.S.-- January 2008
The top ten best selling cars in the United States for January 2008 are led once again by Japanese automakers, taking up the top five positions. General Motors has four vehicles on the list, rounded out by the Ford Focus, in the #10 slot.
The top ten best selling cars in the U.S. for January '08 are as follows:
1. Toyota Camry: 31,601
2. Honda Accord: 23,957
3. Nissan Altima: 21,635
4. Honda Civic: 20,993
5. Toyota Corolla: 20,736
6. Chevrolet Impala: 17,544
7. Chevrolet Cobalt: 17,310
8. Chevrolet Malibu: 14,105
9. Pontiac G6: 13,942
10. Ford Focus: 11,600
As most of your posts, you never look for the facts.
Consunmer Reports judges what's best based on their tests and opinions.
The list I have is from an ACTUAL FACT - SALES. Granted, it is data from February of 2008, but that is the most recent I could find...At any rate, please tell me that as a so-called businessman, you'd rather base your business on an independent agencies opinions, rather than actual sales. Do you mind if I ask what type of business you are in? I wouldn't dare ask for specifics, but I'm curious.
Also, I did mention that the top five in actual sales were foreign made cars. And those foreign plants,(all three of them), employ union workers in their facilities, something that you also wrongly portrayed as one of your "facts".

Sles for ONE MONTH don't mean anything. Except that's how it is for ONE MONTH. Ask anybody that know statistics and they'll tell you one month of data doesn't mean anything, escept that's what happened one month. There can be many fluctuations from month to month, so your facts don't mean anything. What moron would make decisions based on one month's worth of information, oh yeah, you.

Also, if you read my original I said "the top 10 best cars are all foreign", not "the top 10 best SELLING cars....". You should learn how to read and work on your understanding before you start questioning others.

As far as consumer reports, I guess they just must be paid off by those greedy corporations to say good things from whoever pays them the most money. They cannot possibly be reputable, right?

And I didn't say anything about foreign "plants". Everyone knows that the foreign countries have plants down south that are not unionized, and because of that they achieve better productivty because of the flexibility they can get out of each position, something unions don't allow.

See my other post about what business I'm in, but one thing I do is financial analysis and I certainly wouldn't be stupid enough to make decisions off of one months worth of data. Hey, AA lost $26 million in the first quarter this year, maybe $14 an hour is too much to pay those union workers and more concessions are necessary. Bet those union boys don't buy that. Go ahead and twist things how you like, but I can't see where your facts are any good, so I'll trust my research skills, not yours, if you don't mind.

every businees can move....nothing is forever . they will make you think that but every business can decide to leave an area if it doesn't make a profit . and that's what it's about...the suits getting rich . they will make you think you have job security so you come to work everyday and work hard . no businees is locked into a peticular area . if it's an industry needed here....it's needed somewhere else as well . unles you sell kimmelweck rolls(that's a joke!! wanna keep it PC, right)

Strikers Wife wrote:

Interesting-you guys are either not working or using company time on your little computers?? Sooo my mechanic tells me that I need tie rods-I ask how much?? He says Chinese about 20 bucks-will last about 1 year, USA Made not sure but more and will last the life of the vehicle. Thank you Union Bors/Sisters for making me feel safe!! I will spend the money on USA Made--you pay for what you get--The potholes in the Falls are awful!!
Mr. Real Truth Business Man--business slow? Strike got anything to do with it?? or you one of those people taking advantage of your non-union or self employed businesses? You seem to have so much time--Union People earn their money--you should try it sometime--that is if you are smart enough!!

What difference does it make as far as where I work or what I do. If I'm self-employed then I can do whatever with my time, and if I work for one of those greedy corporations and god forbid, I'm not getting fired, then I would hae a lot to worry about, right? Either way it's my business, none of yours. And also, where I work as union people, and it's ridiculous to say Union people earn their money. Are you smart enough to know what an oxymoron is, because that's what your saying. If you union people earn your money, then why is one of the most frequently used statements I hear from union workers is "That's not my job", because if you left it up to these union workers, nothing would be their job, and then they would demand a raise for that.

And at least I was smart enough to get skills that aren't causing me to lose my job, so it looks like the ones who aren't so smart are your union husband and you for marrying him!(LOL)

seA n wrote:

every businees can move....nothing is forever . they will make you think that but every business can decide to leave an area if it doesn't make a profit . and that's what it's about...the suits getting rich . they will make you think you have job security so you come to work everyday and work hard . no businees is locked into a peticular area . if it's an industry needed here....it's needed somewhere else as well . unles you sell kimmelweck rolls(that's a joke!! wanna keep it PC, right)

You really thing University at Buffalo would move? Come on, at least try using that little brain of yours!

Union member said--We will be out here on Kenmore Ave

---For as Long as it Takes--

Looks like you are going to be out there for a long time

Or are you now going to get a non-union real job where you have to earn your pay ?

The Real Real Truth wrote:

<quoted text>
Sles for ONE MONTH don't mean anything. Except that's how it is for ONE MONTH. Ask anybody that know statistics and they'll tell you one month of data doesn't mean anything, escept that's what happened one month. There can be many fluctuations from month to month, so your facts don't mean anything. What moron would make decisions based on one month's worth of information, oh yeah, you.
Also, if you read my original I said "the top 10 best cars are all foreign", not "the top 10 best SELLING cars....". You should learn how to read and work on your understanding before you start questioning others.
As far as consumer reports, I guess they just must be paid off by those greedy corporations to say good things from whoever pays them the most money. They cannot possibly be reputable, right?
And I didn't say anything about foreign "plants". Everyone knows that the foreign countries have plants down south that are not unionized, and because of that they achieve better productivty because of the flexibility they can get out of each position, something unions don't allow.
See my other post about what business I'm in, but one thing I do is financial analysis and I certainly wouldn't be stupid enough to make decisions off of one months worth of data. Hey, AA lost $26 million in the first quarter this year, maybe $14 an hour is too much to pay those union workers and more concessions are necessary. Bet those union boys don't buy that. Go ahead and twist things how you like, but I can't see where your facts are any good, so I'll trust my research skills, not yours, if you don't mind.

Please re-read your original post...You stated the best cars SOLD according to Consumer Reports...I would assume that you meant sales after reading that and not some direction of convoluted thought you might have had after reading my post...

Secondly, I referred to Consumer Reports as an independent agency...I never once said that they are being bought off by large corporations or special interest...You must have imagined that part as well.

Also, I admitted that the sales were only based on the month of January, but like you said, you'd rather conduct your business based on conjecture and opinion from an independent agency and not on trends represented with fact.

In your reply, you say you only meant the foreign plants in the US, a fact that you omitted in your original. Again, do you expect people to understand what you mean by channeling? FYI, employees at the Toyota plant in Tennessee are currently in the midst of organizing as part of the UAW...info you might like to keep track of as you badmouth unions while praising foreign automakers.

Finally, I could respect your opinions more, and probably choose to even give it credibility if you didn't refer to me as a moron, or refer to women as being stupid for whom they may have married.

Intelligence is a trait to be admired, but to flaunt it, even feigned intellect, only makes a person appear arrogant and insufferable.

I picture you as quite the loner, incapable of assimilation with anyone due to the fact that you consistently look down on anyone considered average...and that's too bad, because I'm sure as I write this, as someday you may attain wealth, you will always be poor and lacking in humanity.

I wish you nothing but luck for years to come...but I'm sure you're sense of humility wouldn't think of allowing you to accept it.

I think each of us can find valid examples where each party (management and unions) has dropped the ball.. Successful companies share accountability, look beyond the upcoming business quarter, and work together for the success of all ... This situation is becoming too common placein our economy..There is enough blame to go around, no party is exempt...

laughingatyoumorons wrote:

<quoted text>
First, the only diff. between the tie rods is the box. Both made overseas, box for us co.(possibly
trw) cost more. Same part.
Second, what concern is it of yours if RRT is self employed and posting here during work? jealous? If he is working for someone else and posting during work, you should understand because your husband usually slacks at work too.
Why aren't you at work? You should be doing doubles to make up for hubby's lack of income. Come on you will now have to wear the pants in the family. Hehehehe

Did ya notice the times I am on??? I am self employed and employed in a professional union position--no time during my day to screw my employer and waste his time--when did you see computers in any factories??? These guys earn every penny they make that is why AAM is one of the only suppliers that has made Dauch millions! Again, they did not hire slouches--they hired intelligent, hard working people the past 15 years!! Get it now???