Australia Feels Chill as China's Economic Shadow Grows

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hellokitty81 wrote:

I am tired of some western people, who think they can define everything and lecture china all the time, who do they think they are> what makes them think china must follow their pattern? while china refuse to take their crap, they make every effort to demean china.how mean!!!
chinese are capable and smart enough to create its own pattern and systems, and what civil right and democrazy mean? it means a country and its people are free to choose any way they like to live and develope, without being warped and insulted.

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Rong wrote:

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Remember mixing civil rights with support for separatist movement only set back progress. Tibet and Xinjiang separatists acting as US proxy made it necessary for China to curb civil rights.

ngali wrote:

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Well, I don't know if Chinese hegemony in Tibet and Xianjing can really be called "progress", or the provinces themselves called 'proxies', but I'm talking about ALL of China when I ask the questions,
"Perhaps the ire of China's supporters like yourself and ICT are aroused when China is compared to, and is generally thought of as a tyrannical regime?
Do you think that's a truthful, or a fair statement to make about China?"

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ngali wrote:

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Well, I don't know if Chinese hegemony in Tibet and Xianjing can really be called "progress", or the provinces themselves called 'proxies', but I'm talking about ALL of China when I ask the questions,

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Rong wrote:

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If China were to spend millions of dollars to support an independent Labanese homeland in Sydney based on reasons invented by professional liars disguised as NGOs, how will a normal regular Australian feel?

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ngali wrote:

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Probably confused as to what a Labanese is, but I see your point.
However, it doesn't answer the questions,
"Perhaps the ire of China's supporters like yourself and ICT are aroused when China is compared to, and is generally thought of as a tyrannical regime?
Do you think that's a truthful, or a fair statement to make about China?"

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ngali wrote:

<quoted text>
Well, I don't know if Chinese hegemony in Tibet and Xianjing can really be called "progress", or the provinces themselves called 'proxies', but I'm talking about ALL of China when I ask the questions,
"Perhaps the ire of China's supporters like yourself and ICT are aroused when China is compared to, and is generally thought of as a tyrannical regime?
Do you think that's a truthful, or a fair statement to make about China?"

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ngali wrote:

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Probably confused as to what a Labanese is, but I see your point.
However, it doesn't answer the questions,
"Perhaps the ire of China's supporters like yourself and ICT are aroused when China is compared to, and is generally thought of as a tyrannical regime?
Do you think that's a truthful, or a fair statement to make about China?"

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ngali wrote:

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Probably confused as to what a Labanese is, but I see your point.
However, it doesn't answer the questions,
"Perhaps the ire of China's supporters like yourself and ICT are aroused when China is compared to, and is generally thought of as a tyrannical regime?
Do you think that's a truthful, or a fair statement to make about China?"

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Rong wrote:

<quoted text>Of course these allegations are not truthful and very unfair; at best they are half truth. Most of the time pure fabrication.
They are spread by people with a selfish agenda to mislead innocent people to hate China.
Let me give u a hypothetical example to help u understand. Let's say ethnic Lebanese gangs beat up innocent people in Sydney and Australian police try to stop them and news report it as an "uprising of a very spiritual peace loving people led by their Imam against the tyranny of the Christians".
And everywhere the Australian Rugby team goes fake NGOs organize protests against Australia.
If Australians complain they are called brainwashed zealots.
How do u like that?

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Rong wrote:

<quoted text>Of course these allegations are not truthful and very unfair; at best they are half truth. Most of the time pure fabrication. They are spread by people with a selfish agenda to mislead innocent people to hate China.

Rong wrote:

Let me give u a hypothetical example to help u understand. Let's say ethnic Lebanese gangs beat up innocent people in Sydney and Australian police try to stop them and news report it as an "uprising of a very spiritual peace loving people led by their Imam against the tyranny of the Christians".
And everywhere the Australian Rugby team goes fake NGOs organize protests against Australia.
If Australians complain they are called brainwashed zealots.
How do u like that?

ngali wrote:

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Wow. Really? Do you REALLY think that? Perhaps 'tyranny' is too strong a word, but authoritarian, surely you accept that. I mean COME ON!! "Most of the time pure fabrications"??? Does that even sound plausible to you?
There ARE serious restrictions and repressions of press freedom, and civil rights aren't there?
There ARE political prisoners, right?
By all recognised standards of civil and human rights measurements - China is well down in the rankings.
Economists Democracy Index 2008-'Authoritarian'
136th out of 167
http://graphics.eiu.com/PDF/Democracy%20Index...
Press Freedom Index 2008 -
167th out of 173
http://www.rsf.org/en-classement794-2008.html
Amnesty International Report 2008
http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/docid/483e2782c...
AND BEST FOR LAST
The UN Office of High Commision into Human Rights
Comittee Into Torture - Concluding Observations 2008
Who - in section C - listd Subjects of Concern
*WIDESPREAD TORTURE AND ILL-TREATMENT...IN DETENTION
*ADMINISTRATIVE DETENTION including 'RE-EDUCATION THROUGH LABOUR'
*SECRET DETENTION CENTRES
*HARRASMENT OF DEFENCE LAWYERS
*HARRASSMENT AND VIOLENCE AGAINST HUMAN RIGHTS DEFENDERS
*NATIONAL, ETHNIC OR RELIGIOUS MINORITIES...
*WIDESPREAD REPORTED EXCESIVE FORCE AND ABUSE IN TIBETAN AUTONOMOUS REGION
http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/cat/docs...
http://www.ohchr.org/EN/countries/AsiaRegion/...
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Mate, you may think this some little parlour game where one upping in a debate is all that matters -but if you really believe what you've argued here - in defiance of facts widely accepted and acknowledged - even in China - that ALL these incidents are 'lies spread by China's enemies'... then I have serious reservations as to how reliable your perceptions are.
I thought I'd seen it all - when it comes to oneeyed jingoism - after meeting some gung-ho US Army soldiers stationed in Korea - but you leave them in the dust.
I'm amazed.

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MajorMalfunction wrote:

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Your arguments are all over the place, again I ask you what are you fighting for ?, Freedom and/or Democracy and/or Human rights and/or an Independent Tibet ? They are all mutually exclusive ideals...If you fight for all of them then Rong and Ict as patriotic ethnic chinese have a right to be suspicious of your intentions to split China. If you are using human rights as a stick to pursuade idealistic people to join your crusade for an Independent Tibet, then I would be suspicious of your views, If you use Freedom, Democracy and Human Rights and support A NED sponsored group again all of us will be suspicious of you as you will be supporting the policies of the US government which like I said before have their own intentions. If you just support Human Rights for all then I can sympathise with what you are saying. So what do you support ?

ngali wrote:

<quoted text>
AND BEST FOR LAST
The UN Office of High Commision into Human Rights
Comittee Into Torture - Concluding Observations 2008
Who - in section C - listd Subjects of Concern
*WIDESPREAD TORTURE AND ILL-TREATMENT...IN DETENTION
*ADMINISTRATIVE DETENTION including 'RE-EDUCATION THROUGH LABOUR'
*SECRET DETENTION CENTRES
*HARRASMENT OF DEFENCE LAWYERS
*HARRASSMENT AND VIOLENCE AGAINST HUMAN RIGHTS DEFENDERS
*NATIONAL, ETHNIC OR RELIGIOUS MINORITIES...
*WIDESPREAD REPORTED EXCESIVE FORCE AND ABUSE IN TIBETAN AUTONOMOUS REGION

ngali wrote:

<quoted text>

Mate, you may think this some little parlour game where one upping in a debate is all that matters -but if you really believe what you've argued here - in defiance of facts widely accepted and acknowledged - even in China - that ALL these incidents are 'lies spread by China's enemies'... then I have serious reservations as to how reliable your perceptions are.
I thought I'd seen it all - when it comes to oneeyed jingoism - after meeting some gung-ho US Army soldiers stationed in Korea - but you leave them in the dust.
I'm amazed.

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ngali wrote:

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I've argued for some time - even against other Australians - that the business and trade relationships between China and Australia is neccessary, desirable, and even inevitable.
We will play the political game when it comes to protecting, within reason, our resources.
1) The Chinalco bid was underpriced, and an oppurtunistic takeover of a company, who were suffering a credit crunch. They got a better deal from BHP Biliton, and so took it.
2) The politics of Chinese companies is problematic, when they can be used as a means of Chinese economic policy - especially in terms of setting prices. If they were seperate from CPC control and in genuine competition then there wouldn't be as much concern.
3) You can't REALLY be upset with a country for protecting the value and control of their own national resources.

Rong wrote:

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There are lots of bullshit and misguided nationalism in this matter.
1)If I am not mistaken, most of Rio Tinto shares are held by the British and not Australians.
2) Rio Tinto also has lots of mines all over the world eg in Canada, Indonesia and South Africa. Be careful u don't spread your nationalism around and become a victim of other people's nationalism.
3) China only wanted to buy 15% of Rio. What's the big deal?
4) State own companies are demonized. The alternative is the oligarchy. How is that any better? 36 tycoons in Russia own 30% of Russia's economy. 2% population in US own 90% of US wealth.
Is that suppose to be the right thing to do? Those who keep parroting propaganda for the oligarch should pause and think.
5)To be fair to Australia, Chinalco's failed bid has nothing to do with all the disinformation, but a lot to do with China's success.
Commodity price went up in Q1 because China's economy is growing. Rio Tinto's fortune went up with it. Chinalco's offer became less attractive.
When Rio rejected the offer the it's share price went up. I think it's fair.

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Koala Sleep wrote:

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Arrest made up to the employee MUST be link to CHINALCO.