Honda to Build Three New Plants

Steve Mihaljevic wrote:

Look at the products from Ford, in the 500, the Zephyr. <quoted text>

I agree with your assertation that Americans are perfectly capable of making fine cars, but it's funny you mention the Zephyr. Along with the Fusion and Milan - all 3 of Ford's best-selling vehicles right now....all made in good ole Mexico.:)

Steve Mihaljevic wrote:

You couldnt have said it any better my man.
Unions have transformed from being a look out for the owrker to look out for thermselves. I sure would love to open the books of the unions in this country and see where and how the union dues have been spent. I would be willing to be there are quite a few union chiefs living the good life, at the expense of those the supposedley protect.
the union idea is like communism. In ideaology its a great idea, in reality its stupid. Why? It doesnt take into account the X factor, which is a human in control. Like the communists Unions are full of hypocrites manipulating those under them to better themselves while claiming to look out for the same people they are screwing over.
Its a shame but its true
<quoted text>

Hi Steve,

Union books can be viewed by the members that pay the dues. There are federal regulations on unions.

None wrote:

Toyota and Honda take care of the people pretty well; which they can do being non union. We have a plant in town. People who work there are happy and not having the hassle of being caught between the union cartel and the company is nice. It also means the company can focus more on being good to it's people; and it expects good work from it's people. The people who work there are concerned about what they build not just about putting in their time.
People also know if they Unionize the company will take it elsewhere.
Large companies who have had unions for years are at a big dissadvantage. GM, Ford are paying people have so much liability in pension, and layed off workers they may not make it through the next 10 years! We have another union plant down here and to hear the stories of what people get and get away with makes you wonder how they can make any money. It's a good job to get some sleep on 3rd shift to say the least!

I gather from your post labor at toyota and honda must have less wages and compensation packages.

Does labor at T & H have a pension or do they have the ever popular defined contribution plan?

Since employees at T & H have smaller pakages, why are those vechicles more expensive than there American counterparts? They must have some highly compensated excecitives to pull that off. But as long as labor is happy I guess thats what counts.........just curious if it's not in pay and benefits, what do they do to make someone doing a repetative monotonous job happy?

Hey check this out, another way they can save money to make sure the plants stay here is make labor pay for medical, you know just like car insurance...what do you think?

ex-mech wrote:

<quoted text>
I gather from your post labor at toyota and honda must have less wages and compensation packages.
Does labor at T & H have a pension or do they have the ever popular defined contribution plan?
Since employees at T & H have smaller pakages, why are those vechicles more expensive than there American counterparts? They must have some highly compensated excecitives to pull that off. But as long as labor is happy I guess thats what counts.........just curious if it's not in pay and benefits, what do they do to make someone doing a repetative monotonous job happy?
Hey check this out, another way they can save money to make sure the plants stay here is make labor pay for medical, you know just like car insurance...what do you think?

You sure do make a lot of asumptions. It's all about the money isn't it. Actually I understand they work 8 year old children 12 hour day's with no potty breaks. Nothing but bread and water for a 15 min lunch!

John wrote:

As an update, some follow-up research indicates the frontrunners for Honda's new plant right now are Indiana and Ohio. Definitely not right-to-work states.
I find it very interesting how in those two states, there's plenty of Nissan/Honda/Toyota plants which are all non-union, but the Big Two are heavily unionised. Has the UAW tried organising the transplant assembly factories in Indiana and Ohio? How have the transplants avoided the unions in those states while the Big Two haven't?

As a former employee of Honda, I can tell you that both the UAW and Teamsters have tried on several occasssions to unionize the Honda assembly workers. The last attempt was in 98 I believe. The union thought they had enough interest to hold a vote but when they went through the process of validating the "card" they found that most of the names were phony. The union held a rally one day and had the media there to broadcast it. There were several union members represented. The next day, the Honda assembly workers rallied with even more media present. There were men and women in their white Honda uniforms lined up on both sides of Honda Parkway, in great numbers supporting their non-union environment. The union packed up and left that day.

Why are they so against the union? Well, I have seen several comments about low wages which is absolutely wrong. Those speaking are obviously uninformed and brainwashed by the unions. The Honda assembly workers make very good wages, I would argue even better than those of the "Big 3" (Ha, that's a joke). Honda provides 100% of health insurance, employees pay no premium and that continues after you retire from there. I had my 2nd child while working at Honda and paid $0, from the first doctor's visit through our hospital visit. There were no co-pays, no co-insurance. Honda has also never, in it's entire history, had a lay-off. Honda is very loyal to its workers and respects them. Honda encourages input from all levels within the company and they listen and implement them. They reward people for finding innovative solutions and even cost reductions. They don't eliminate their jobs; they find more valuable work for them to do. There are annual bonus checks, never fails. Look at the attrition rate of Honda assembly workers; it was less than 2% when I left in 2000. If it was so horrible to work there, if Honda paid so poorly, don't you think more people would leave? The people who do leave, including myself, do so because they don't know better, they haven't worked in a typical U.S. company, the grass is greener....you don't know what you have until it's gone.

Steve Mihaljevic wrote:

<quoted text>
Why dont you do a little research.
1. Assembled here is not the same as made here. Which is what alot of Japanses companies are brainwashing Americans to think. The majoroty fo the parts on these so called cars are sourced from oversears.
2. The legacy costs for newly established planst here are not the same as for firms that have been around for 70-100 years.
Well see what Toyota and Honds do in 50 years when they have two generations of workes that have run through a plant and have to pay for all their retirement and healtcare etc.
3. Toyota in Ohio has been notorius for having their workers denied healhcare service because of Toyotas poor payout on healthcare of employees. Dont believe me?? Do some research.
4. Fact American Auto Industry is dominated 4-1 by the Big three employment wise.
Now if your hell bent on buying Japanese at least make sure the North American parts content of the Japanese cars is 70% or greater.
This means the parts are mostly made here on the North American continent, helping as many workers as we can here.
The unions need to find a balance somewhere they can have "decent wages" and making sure jobs stay here on US soil. What you have now is a dysfunctional union misleading their members to receive as many unions dues as possible. The writing is on the wall. The unions have to change or they wiull die and possibly hurt the big three in the process. GM and Ford have had enough and I dont blame them at all.

The Honda Accord, Civic and Odyssey all have part content greater than 70% and that does not include the assembly of which is also done here in the United States, in Ohio and Alabama. In fact the Accord, with assembly, has a 97% American content. The only major component still bought from Japan is the transmission and Honda is expanding their transmission production in Ohio. I purchased an Accord a few years ago and compared its content to other "US" cars at the time and the Accord had a higher U.S. content. I'm not even that concerned to be honest with the American content of what I buy but I happened to be interested and checked it out. It's a better car and a better value and that's why I really bought it.

Sheri wrote:

<quoted text>
The Honda Accord, Civic and Odyssey all have part content greater than 70% and that does not include the assembly of which is also done here in the United States, in Ohio and Alabama. In fact the Accord, with assembly, has a 97% American content. The only major component still bought from Japan is the transmission and Honda is expanding their transmission production in Ohio. I purchased an Accord a few years ago and compared its content to other "US" cars at the time and the Accord had a higher U.S. content. I'm not even that concerned to be honest with the American content of what I buy but I happened to be interested and checked it out. It's a better car and a better value and that's why I really bought it.

You're exactly right. The Accord's 97% domestic content beats anything else made by anybody, even the Big Two. Many other transplant vehicles are in the 70s and 80s. In order for the "no domestic content" argument to hold, you'd have to look at a true import, like the Prius (for now). If it's assembled in American, you can be pretty much guaranteed that it's majority domestic content as well, no matter what make.

MrBill wrote:

<quoted text>
You lack basic reason.
American car companies cannot make a good, economical, safe, popular car. The reason for that is US auto management and marketers get too deeply involved in engineering and design, and then the US manufacturers create cars designed by committee. The workers, unions, suppliers, and dealers are not to blame. BLAME TOP MANAGEMENT.
Poor design is killing thr US auto industry.
Your predjudice against unions is blinding you to reality.
What confuses me is that the Saturn car is good, economical, safe, but not popular. What is it that Toyota & Honda has, that Saturn doesn't have?

Toyota & Honda have quality. A Saturn mechanic came to look at my Honda bike for sale. He was from Pakistan. He said in his country it is from the east to the west, Honda is the best. He said he works as a Saturn mechanic and they had a 2000plus Saturn there,(this 2 or 3 years ago) and it had a rod knocking. They said, how does a 2000 plus Saturn have a rod knocking. He says "I told them, look on the side of it, what does it say...GM that's what! That is why it has a rod knocking."

I find it funny that over the years how much we concern ourselves with how much of a car is American made and then we spend the life of the car putting more $ in foreign gas through it then the car is worth. I have been putting Bio Diesel in my truck for the simple fact that most of it is home grown. It is the number one reason I am for Ethanol vehicles. I would love to see our farmers get the proceeds of our fuel usage.

Anonymous wrote:

I find it funny that over the years how much we concern ourselves with how much of a car is American made and then we spend the life of the car putting more $ in foreign gas through it then the car is worth. I have been putting Bio Diesel in my truck for the simple fact that most of it is home grown. It is the number one reason I am for Ethanol vehicles. I would love to see our farmers get the proceeds of our fuel usage.

I agree with the goal of energy independance, the opposite will most likely be the downfall of this nation.

I have read that it takes 1.5 gallons of petroleum based fuel to create 1 gallon of Ethanol. Not sure if those figures are real or not but that linked with its lack of comparable BTU's actually makes it much less energy efficient.
Can the farmers change that figure by running ethanol that they "farmed" in there vehicles and processing plants ?

mcgyver that is something that has been passed around so much that isn't true. I don't know what the figure is but right now they can make it for the same price or cheaper then gas. There are issues but none are really that bad. It is hard to use it in older cars but it's really more about what we are doing in the future.

Ethanol plants are actually much cheaper to make then oil refineries which is good. They are not making them very fast right now and I think the reason is the oil companies are involved. Theya re only utting out the ethanol as mandated. I think the real key would be to get the Ethanol distributors seperate from the oil companies. Then there would be some REAL competition.

There are a lot of things which is really making this good for the farmers. Fast grow corn which is allowing them to do 3 crops per year (for fuel). They are learning to use the stalks and other plants as well.

I think we just have to "DO IT!" I think that is what we have to do.

Anonymous wrote:

mcgyver that is something that has been passed around so much that isn't true. I don't know what the figure is but right now they can make it for the same price or cheaper then gas. There are issues but none are really that bad. It is hard to use it in older cars but it's really more about what we are doing in the future.
Ethanol plants are actually much cheaper to make then oil refineries which is good. They are not making them very fast right now and I think the reason is the oil companies are involved. Theya re only utting out the ethanol as mandated. I think the real key would be to get the Ethanol distributors seperate from the oil companies. Then there would be some REAL competition.
There are a lot of things which is really making this good for the farmers. Fast grow corn which is allowing them to do 3 crops per year (for fuel). They are learning to use the stalks and other plants as well.
I think we just have to "DO IT!" I think that is what we have to do.

Thanks for the info,,,,sometimes figures thrown out there are just to justify someones position. I heard the other day that there is actually a supply issue that is hitting the processors right now making it a bit more expensive at the pump. In Kalifornia we aren't big consumers other than the 15% added for oxygenation. Sure glad we are trying to get that MTBE crap out,,,that was a real bad deal for the environment

mcgyver wrote:

The big three auto makers (at least what they call themselves) are scrambling to build cars in Mexico. All the while Nissan, Toyota and Honda are building them here and enjoying huge profits.
You have to wonder what the common denominator is. Have the Unions incrimentally forced them out with large payrolls and retirement packages, Has NAFTA been good for the American workers ?

The corp.s have warned since at least 1965 that the labour cost must be reduce,the uaw/caw cares not listen until threatened,Gm did bargain that if the saturn plant was to be built in Tenn the plant would not be unionized,or GM would get locomotives to bring in cheaper cars from saltillo mex plant.

Please note that the us corps do not play games, the auto industry exists in Ontario canada only because the health car premiums cost is largely reduced by the fact a huge pool of citizens all pay exactly the same or socialized payment not based on ability to pay or levels of service. This saves billions,Gm is obligated to buy blue cross coverage in the private market in the US for employees and retirees. This cost exceeds the cost to build the product , raw materials and labour.
The big shift to china is coming, as is more sucking sound to mexico.
IF immigration has a chill from the current bush administration the auto companies will be praised in opening plants in mexico to " create" mexican jobs.
MMexico has no social safety net , all must go to the jobs whereever they may be.

Noyb wrote:

Unions have strangled the American auto industry as they have killed all other industry.

Sounds like you haven't benefited from unionization,I know it has made me very bitter ,inflation in my humble opinion can lay its ugly hand on the last forty years of life becuase the union public sector employees can auction up the price of goods by extorting more cash from the employer.
mRant is all i have left sorry but i feel better knowing that i am not totally silenced .

missourimaven wrote:

<quoted text>
So please explain why the ecomomy was so much better as was the quality of life here in the US when unions were so strong. Please explain why when unions were broken the economic picture did NOT suddenly become much rosier. Shouldn't we all be better off now that fewer than 20% of workers are represented by unions??? Should firms be recording record profits???? Hey, wait a minute, aren't MANY recording those record profit??? The reason that auto manufacturers are going broke is they're not manufacturing a product people WANT. They don't PLAN. They offer low,low financing and for awhile were offering even 0% financing. They hacve plenty of bad debt figured into their bottom line too. How about EXECTUTIVE (as in non-union) salaries??? Ceo's of many corps making tens if not hundred of millions of dollars. You idiots are worried that some worker EARNS twenty dollars an hour.
I'm glad you'll lose your jobs, lose your houses and perhaps sleep in that Honda or Toyota, you're just green with envy and not only clueless but brainless and talentless or you'd be there working one of those "UNION" jobs too. Wise up phone jockeys, your jobs are goin to India.
I don't feel sorry for what will happen to those of you that decry unionization. You most definitely will get what you're asking for, even lower wages and an even lesser standard of living. I heard on CNN today that right now, 29% of people that bought houses last year now have homes valued at less than their mortgages, NOT WHAT THEY PAID, their mortgages. Buffoons abound, talking heads that spout nonsense. Well, the solution for you guys is simple...DON'T WORK A UNION JOB OR IN A UNION PLANT WHERE YOU GET UNION SCALE. No one says you have to.
Do any of you READ?? Do any of you have any idea of what history is? I just can't get over how dumb people are nowadays. And the funny part is, you think you are "smart"
Oh well, enjoy life in your Toyota or Honda. And just think you won't be forced to join a union or make union wages. Meanwhile the head of the corp you toil for will make tens of MILLIONS. God who put you people on the planet?

SMUG, SMUG,SMUG.
Depraved indifference show your spots , this may be the best comment on the topic. Defining a disregard ,even annoyance or distaste for the welfare of all who did not get a union job.
Or is this just an " agent provocateur" to get a discussion going ,as the topic isn't new any more, China shall inherit the earth .The americans will enjoy cheap products in their retirements, cars at 5,ooo dollars i hear are coming.But no union jobs there. HMMMM>

mcgyver wrote:

<quoted text>
Your gonna set off a firestorm after igniting that comment...hahaha

No joke, Harley is the new GOD, all must conform or be endlessly belittled for having a rice burner, say an "aspencade".
Or is it it just the harley owners are insecure?

Unfortunately bad anecdoteal experiences can hurt the image of the poor workers getting a fair wage.
My dad was a hard ball management negoiator at a n auto plant. One day a big drunk guy bargedinto my family home , in 1959 and had his way with my mom,
not nice , but nothing was said in those days .
Do know that an "in plant" union was formed and UAW never got in that plant to this day.Wages are aprox the same as GM plant down the street.The big union organizers can suck up huge fees for their services.The pres seems to want to highlight the corp compensation amounts but seems not to notice the nion laeders as much.

albe wrote:

<quoted text>
Sounds like you haven't benefited from unionization,I know it has made me very bitter ,inflation in my humble opinion can lay its ugly hand on the last forty years of life becuase the union public sector employees can auction up the price of goods by extorting more cash from the employer.
mRant is all i have left sorry but i feel better knowing that i am not totally silenced .

I was in an airline union for a while. The pilots in the union were so screwed up. They would get so wound up about fighting over this and that you would think they were going to a football game. It was an unpleasant place to work. The people who do benefit from unions only do so until they cave the company. Then everyone looses.

Did you see Wall street today? Toyota is not doing so in china. Is China our biggest concern? Did you see Toyota's new marketing stradegy in China? "Made in the USA!"