Japanese Citizens Turn on TOYOTA

Jan 28, 2010 Full story: www.latimes.com 228

Toyota has let down the great Japanese people. They feel cheated and embarrassed by the company.

Full Story
whatever

Lincolnshire, IL

#178 Mar 10, 2010
An excerpt taken from a NYTimes article written yesterday.

"Letís do the math. My back-of-the-envelope calculations (explained in a footnote below) suggest that if you drive one of the Toyotas recalled for acceleration problems and donít bother to comply with the recall, your chances of being involved in a fatal accident over the next two years because of the unfixed problem are a bit worse than one in a million ó 2.8 in a million, to be more exact. Meanwhile, your chances of being killed in a car accident during the next two years just by virtue of being an American are one in 5,244.

So driving one of these suspect Toyotas raises your chances of dying in a car crash over the next two years from .01907 percent (thatís 19 one-thousandths of 1 percent, when rounded off) to .01935 percent (also 19 one-thousandths of one percent). I can live with those odds. Sure, Iíd rather they were better, but itís not worth losing sleep over. And I donít think itís worth all the bandwidth the Toyota story has consumed over the past couple of months.

But lots of Americans seem to disagree with me. Why?

I think one reason is that not all deaths are created equal. A fatal brake failure is scary, but not as scary as your car seizing control of itself and taking you on a harrowing death ride. Itís almost as if the car is a living, malicious being.

First, even back before cars were software-driven, beta testing was common. Any car is a system too complex for designers to fully anticipate the upshot for life and limb. Hence decades of non-microchip-related safety recalls.

Second, the fact that a feature of a car can be fatal isnít necessarily a persuasive objection to it. One feature that all cars possess and that has been shown to cause death is motion. But weíve decided that the benefits of automated motion are worth the cost of more than 30,000 American lives each year.

cont...
whatever

Lincolnshire, IL

#179 Mar 10, 2010
cont...

Seems like a good trade-off to me. After all, high-speed motion will also save some lives (e.g. those of ambulance-driven heart-attack victims) and improve the quality of life in various ways. Life is full of trade-offs, and sometimes trade-offs involve death.

Similarly, those software features that are sure to have unanticipated bugs, including fatal ones, have upsides. Electronic stability control keeps cars from flipping over, and electronic throttle control improves mileage.

It worries me that this Toyota thing worries us so much. Of course, I probably wonít. But if I donít ó if I pass up the chance to spend some money to save a life ó am I any less culpable than Toyota was when it bargained with the government to get the least costly fix available (new floor mats) without obsessing over whether floor mats were the root of the problem?(Perhaps the most nauseating sight in Washington recently ó and thatís saying something ó was the infinitely contrite Toyota head, Akio Toyoda, being browbeaten by legislators who, God knows, discharge their professional responsibilities no more conscientiously than he discharges his.)
Donít get me wrong. Itís good that the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration keeps an eye on carmakers, so that the beta testing doesnít get too gruesome.

But it worries me that this Toyota thing worries us so much. We live in a world where responding irrationally to risk (say, the risk of a terrorist attack) can lead us to make mistakes (say, invading Iraq). So the Toyota story is a kind of test of our terrorism-fighting capacity ó our ability to keep our wits about us when things seem spooky.

Passing the test depends on lots of things. It depends on politicians resisting the temptation to score cheap points via the exploitation of irrational fear. It depends on journalists doing the same. And it depends on Americans in general keeping cool, notwithstanding the likely failure of many politicians and journalists to do their part.

“Most Honored Senior Member ”

Since: Jun 09

Dallas, TX.

#180 Mar 10, 2010
Toyota will end up replacing gazillions of electrical components. Watch and see.
whatever

Lincolnshire, IL

#181 Mar 10, 2010
Given the nature of the connector between the wiring harness and the pedal assembly, it's highly unlikely that such a scenario (Gilberts) could ever occur in the real world. The only way this is could occur is if the insulation on the wires in the harness itself was stripped away (exactly the way Gilbert did for his test) and just the right amount of resistance occurred only between the two signal lines. Obviously, such a scenario is unlikely.

According to Kristen Tabar of Toyota, the resistance range that will work is very narrow. The 200 ohm resistance is not something that could occur with any materials that are likely to appear in the vehicle environment. For example, water intrusion would produce resistance in the 1,000+ ohm region. A straight short of the wires would be well below 200 ohms. Either scenario would trigger a fault code.

During the webcast, Toyota and Exponent demonstrated the same scenario on a Ford Fusion, BMW 325i and Subaru Legacy (they also had a host of other vehicles on hand) and each vehicle replicated the racing engine condition without signaling a fault code, although each one required a different resistance value. Like pretty much every modern vehicle available, these vehicles use a similar type of gas pedal architecture.

So what does this all prove? First, it demonstrates that with a bit of re-engineering of the pedal circuit, any engine can be made to race independently of what the driver commands with their foot. David Gilbert was able to modify the Toyota pedal sensor circuit to make this happen within the parameters that the fault diagnosis system was expecting so that no fault was detected.

“Most Honored Senior Member ”

Since: Jun 09

Dallas, TX.

#182 Mar 10, 2010
They need to get the Dr. to begin testing the cruise control.
hint hint...
whatever

Lincolnshire, IL

#183 Mar 10, 2010
Maybe they need to probe the people that have this sudden unintended acceleration problem. Probably having money problems and can't afford their car and their house, so they conveniently "crash" the car and blame it on Toyota.

“Most Honored Senior Member ”

Since: Jun 09

Dallas, TX.

#184 Mar 10, 2010
Certainly some will try this. One thing is certain however, this baby was spawned by Toyota dragging its feet. This thing will be screwing them for the next ten years.
bushpedals

Philadelphia, PA

#185 Mar 10, 2010
look its obvious the government which now owns gm
doesnt want their investment to lose out to a great company like toyota.

so they cooked up this story and yeah a couple cars had some problems, due to AMERICAN made pedals. now they are blowing it way up, and nut jobs are jumping the wagon too. break out the polygraph.

thats why they sent the fbi to ransack denso , looking for evidence of price fixing.

next they'll tell us bush and cheney are behind all this too. people like jjfags are the problem in this country.

get out of my contry commie!

“Most Honored Senior Member ”

Since: Jun 09

Dallas, TX.

#186 Mar 10, 2010
Toyota just expanded the Tundra recall. Those rust buckets are in all 50 states.
whatever

Lincolnshire, IL

#187 Mar 11, 2010
The best thing for Toyota to do now it just say, "Hey if you got a Toyota between this year and this year, bring it in. We'll look at it with no cost to you." It'll make people feel better instead of them waiting to see if their vehicle will be on the recall list. Sure it will cost them some up front, but making their customers feel better about them will pay off in the long run.

Since: Oct 08

Cape May Court House, NJ

#188 Mar 11, 2010
whatever wrote:
The best thing for Toyota to do now it just say, "Hey if you got a Toyota between this year and this year, bring it in. We'll look at it with no cost to you." It'll make people feel better instead of them waiting to see if their vehicle will be on the recall list. Sure it will cost them some up front, but making their customers feel better about them will pay off in the long run.
Yes, Toyota could say just that but the level of confusion at present attending recurrences of Shocking Unintended Acceleration paired with the fact that Toyota hasn't a clue as to what is wrong with their electronics is troubling. Wait for the next shoe to drop in the Toyota Scandal. In the meantime I believe that all Toyotas should be impounded for the danger which they represent.
whatever

Lincolnshire, IL

#189 Mar 11, 2010
"Following weeks of bad news for Toyota involving brake and acceleration problems and millions of recalled vehicles, something kind of strange happened: a second-gen Prius, which had been recalled because there was a potential that the floor mat could cause unintended acceleration, reached 94 miles per hour on a California highway apparently against the driver's wishes, in a case where the floor mat was not to blame. Two days later, a similar thing happened in New York. We aren't saying that these incidents aren't exactly what the drivers involved claim, but the AP is reminding us that there could be something else at work here.

The relentless media coverage of Toyota's problems could be getting into drivers' minds and making "it much more likely that drivers will mistake anything unexpected - or even a misplaced foot - for actual danger." A look at the number of complaints filed this year with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration over "speed control problems" Ė 272 in ten weeks Ė compared to 74 in all of 2009 helps make the case. When it comes to problems with brakes, people are even more freaked out: 1,816 have been filed in 2010 compared to 90 in 2009 and about 20 in each of the eight years before that.

We'll let the authorities investigate these latest cases and determine as best they can what happened there, but we also want the madness to calm down. Problems should be fixed, sure, but just because some people have problems doesn't mean everyone does."

Since: Oct 08

Cape May Court House, NJ

#190 Mar 11, 2010
whatever wrote:
"Following weeks of bad news for Toyota involving brake and acceleration problems and millions of recalled vehicles, something kind of strange happened: a second-gen Prius, which had been recalled because there was a potential that the floor mat could cause unintended acceleration, reached 94 miles per hour on a California highway apparently against the driver's wishes, in a case where the floor mat was not to blame. Two days later, a similar thing happened in New York. We aren't saying that these incidents aren't exactly what the drivers involved claim, but the AP is reminding us that there could be something else at work here.
The relentless media coverage of Toyota's problems could be getting into drivers' minds and making "it much more likely that drivers will mistake anything unexpected - or even a misplaced foot - for actual danger." A look at the number of complaints filed this year with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration over "speed control problems" Ė 272 in ten weeks Ė compared to 74 in all of 2009 helps make the case. When it comes to problems with brakes, people are even more freaked out: 1,816 have been filed in 2010 compared to 90 in 2009 and about 20 in each of the eight years before that.
We'll let the authorities investigate these latest cases and determine as best they can what happened there, but we also want the madness to calm down. Problems should be fixed, sure, but just because some people have problems doesn't mean everyone does."
Possibly, but first, these are Toyota Drivers we're referencing. Proving to be not the brightest bulbs on-the-tree aren't they?

l o l
liner

Hicksville, NY

#191 Mar 11, 2010
Nostromo wrote:
<quoted text>
Possibly, but first, these are Toyota Drivers we're referencing. Proving to be not the brightest bulbs on-the-tree aren't they?
l o l
Millions of Toyota drivers out there, none of them as smart as you are.
whatever

Lincolnshire, IL

#192 Mar 11, 2010
Nostromo wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, Toyota could say just that but the level of confusion at present attending recurrences of Shocking Unintended Acceleration paired with the fact that Toyota hasn't a clue as to what is wrong with their electronics is troubling. Wait for the next shoe to drop in the Toyota Scandal. In the meantime I believe that all Toyotas should be impounded for the danger which they represent.
Based on your analysis you're okay with the other 30,000 people dying in auto accidents every year?

Anyway, based on figures there have been how many people that have died from SUA? 52. How many driving deaths were there during the time period of 2004-Feb.2010 (this is the Toyota recall period up to this point)? Approx. 180,000 people. What are the odds that someone will die in a car accident this year? 0.00011457% Out of those that die in auto accidents each year what are the odds that someone will die in a car accident while experiencing SUA in a Toyota?.000297% The point is I think there are much bigger fish to fry.

Could ABC be the next Fox News? Looks like it's quite possible with this bad reporting job.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_toyota_recall_a...
whatever

Lincolnshire, IL

#193 Mar 11, 2010
According to the NHTSA in all the recall years a grand total of 52 people (sadly) have died from "SUA" in Toyota's and look at all the news coverage it generates.

In 2007 alone the CDC reported that 50 people died of Syphillis and 30 died from Salmonella infections. Both numbers are higher than any year from SUA. Yet not a peep was made a big deal about either syphillis or salmonella. H*ll 2007 alone 2,600 people died from malnutrition and 1,663 died from a hernia. I didn't catch those in the news at all. I just think it's interesting how things can be blown out of proportion when related to the so few deaths that happened. I don't excuse any of it, but deaths by hernia don't sound as sexy on the 5:00 o'clock news as a runaway car that gets stopped by squad car even though "SUA" incidents represent only .006% of hernia deaths in 2007.

“Most Honored Senior Member ”

Since: Jun 09

Dallas, TX.

#194 Mar 11, 2010
Just a few words:

Transportation Recall Enhancement, Accountability and Documentation Act-

Specifically reference ĎĎß 30170. Criminal Penalties" The next shoe is dropping. No more excuses, no more copy and pasting media articles about dumbfounded witch hunts and conspiracy theories. The show is over.
whatever

Lincolnshire, IL

#195 Mar 11, 2010
JJFADS wrote:
Just a few words:
Transportation Recall Enhancement, Accountability and Documentation Act-
Specifically reference ĎĎß 30170. Criminal Penalties" The next shoe is dropping. No more excuses, no more copy and pasting media articles about dumbfounded witch hunts and conspiracy theories. The show is over.
So what news article did you find that from again? I can't pull up the link you pasted for us to click on.

“Most Honored Senior Member ”

Since: Jun 09

Dallas, TX.

#196 Mar 11, 2010
whatever

Lincolnshire, IL

#197 Mar 11, 2010
JJFADS wrote:
Just a few words:
Transportation Recall Enhancement, Accountability and Documentation Act-
Specifically reference ĎĎß 30170. Criminal Penalties" The next shoe is dropping. No more excuses, no more copy and pasting media articles about dumbfounded witch hunts and conspiracy theories. The show is over.
Well you pulled a page from some law article. Good for you.

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