GM to pay up to $200M to help end American Axle strike

Good Day,

Seenit - indeed. Perhaps the government needs to be "regulated"... hehe. What they do with S.S. is borrow yours and my money with out asking permisiion. And that my friend is theft, pure and simple.

Steelie

Steelie wrote:

Good Day,
Seenit - indeed. Perhaps the government needs to be "regulated"... hehe. What they do with S.S. is borrow yours and my money with out asking permisiion. And that my friend is theft, pure and simple.
Steelie

I remember back in the late 70s we were taking the kids to Ceder Point. We stopped at a Holiday in in Toledo for the night to continue early the next morning. During those times the same discussion(s) was going on about SS as it has been during these last 7 years. After putting the kids to sleep we sat back and watched a CBS special on SS. They showed (official) Federal Government papers that showed the SS system was sound as a rock with surplus.

The short of the whole thing was a certain faction wanted to get their hands on the SS money to put into growing business.

Just within the last few months I saw a report that showed SS still has a 7 trillion dollar emergency surplus. Another instance of those reports you see just once and it's not repeated again. Kinda like the one that showed Niel Bush was at the forefront of starting the S&L Crisis and we just didn't see it again.

Anyway, ya, you have a pool of cash and those in charge of that cash seem to see it as an easy "loan" department for their special interest(s). I can remember several attempts to make the SS Fund a lock box fund but it just never even makes it to a Congressional vote. Huh, wonder why that happens. ;)

Good Day,

Indeed Seenit that is an excellent question! And the scary thing is that this perception crosses party lines. There are both Democrats and Republicans that veiw S.S. as an easy way to "borrow" (steal) money for pet programs. And I for one am fed up with it. I would love to see S.S. placed in "lock box". I can honestly state that only once did I really agree with Al Gore, and that was when he proposed the S.S. lock box!(A staunch conservative agreeing with a leftist liberal! The humanity!) But it made sense. S.S. is OUR money not theirs. Just like the taxes they collect come from OUR paychecks! Personally, I do not think that S.S. needs to be reformed as much as I believe that we have to get government's hands out of the cookie jar!

Steelie

Steelie wrote:

Good Day,
Indeed Seenit that is an excellent question! And the scary thing is that this perception crosses party lines. There are both Democrats and Republicans that veiw S.S. as an easy way to "borrow" (steal) money for pet programs. And I for one am fed up with it. I would love to see S.S. placed in "lock box". I can honestly state that only once did I really agree with Al Gore, and that was when he proposed the S.S. lock box!(A staunch conservative agreeing with a leftist liberal! The humanity!) But it made sense. S.S. is OUR money not theirs. Just like the taxes they collect come from OUR paychecks! Personally, I do not think that S.S. needs to be reformed as much as I believe that we have to get government's hands out of the cookie jar!
Steelie

Agreed.

Chip wrote:

<quoted text>
If you think for one minute that Reagan's tax cuts hurt our economy, YOU ARE WITHOUT A DOUBT THE DUMBEST PERSON ALIVE.

CHIP what do you say NOW ? G.M. taking everything away from their " NON UNION " people ? LET ME SEE UNIONS are NO good and I will be paid and get all my benefits becouse I have a DEGREE / well CHIP what happened ? the largest employer in the U.S. is cutting all the NON UNION employees [ wonder how long will it take for all the anti - union people to see this and start thinking MAYBE we should get it together and get a UNION going? GOOD JOB CHIP HOPE your not one of these non union people that will be losing their JOBS.

tbird19482 wrote:

<quoted text> CHIP what do you say NOW ? G.M. taking everything away from their " NON UNION " people ? LET ME SEE UNIONS are NO good and I will be paid and get all my benefits becouse I have a DEGREE / well CHIP what happened ? the largest employer in the U.S. is cutting all the NON UNION employees [ wonder how long will it take for all the anti - union people to see this and start thinking MAYBE we should get it together and get a UNION going? GOOD JOB CHIP HOPE your not one of these non union people that will be losing their JOBS.

COME ON CHIPPY no reply? I mean they all have DEGREES and get what they earn rite? Isn't that what you said?

Now you know if he does respond it will be that it's all caused by the union employees.
"To educate a man in mind and not in morals is to educate a menace to society." - Theodore Roosevelt

At least the Union bargained to take over the retirement trust fund for union members. Smart move.

Good Day,

It should be no mystery that I am staunchly anti-union, right Seenit ol' buddy? Hehe... However, I am a realist. It is not exclusively the fault of the unions that white collar jobs are being eliminated. It has happened before and will happen again. The primary reason for this is that the company is not profitable. It doesn't matter what the union does, if you can't produce a product that sells it makes no difference. To be certain, yes, long strikes can have a negative impact on a company, but if their products don't sell due to market conditions it doesn't matter. Try selling sand to a bedouin or lamb to a shepard. This is a direct response to the inability of management, engineering, design and the board to embrace change. The Detroit three have stubornly held on to their arrogant veiw of the marketplace and did not change when change was needed. Toyota and Honda saw the changes that were needed, and that is why they have become more successful. I remember a long time ago reading about how the Japanese economy rose post WWII. It was said that if you have an idea, they could perfect it. It was said that at the time the Japanese were not so much talented at having original thought (ideas) but that they could take an existing product and make it perform better. And so too with the auto industry. The Detroit three have resited change where as the Japanese have embraced it - and now we are seeing the results.

Steelie

Steelie wrote:

Good Day,
It should be no mystery that I am staunchly anti-union, right Seenit ol' buddy? Hehe... However, I am a realist. It is not exclusively the fault of the unions that white collar jobs are being eliminated. It has happened before and will happen again. The primary reason for this is that the company is not profitable. It doesn't matter what the union does, if you can't produce a product that sells it makes no difference. To be certain, yes, long strikes can have a negative impact on a company, but if their products don't sell due to market conditions it doesn't matter. Try selling sand to a bedouin or lamb to a shepard. This is a direct response to the inability of management, engineering, design and the board to embrace change. The Detroit three have stubornly held on to their arrogant veiw of the marketplace and did not change when change was needed. Toyota and Honda saw the changes that were needed, and that is why they have become more successful. I remember a long time ago reading about how the Japanese economy rose post WWII. It was said that if you have an idea, they could perfect it. It was said that at the time the Japanese were not so much talented at having original thought (ideas) but that they could take an existing product and make it perform better. And so too with the auto industry. The Detroit three have resited change where as the Japanese have embraced it - and now we are seeing the results.
Steelie

Oh I agree. The way I see it though is the Detroit three have far too many cheerleaders to even consider changing. Why would anyone want to change when they keep getting told it's not the ceiling free top management compensation packages and overhead that's hurting them, it's all the unions fault. Why should they want to change anything, that's not their idea, when the public at large...the people in the market, keep telling them they are the smartest of them all.

The American people are idol worshipers. The bigger the money the better they must be.

Seenitbefore wrote:

<quoted text>
Oh I agree. The way I see it though is the Detroit three have far too many cheerleaders to even consider changing. Why would anyone want to change when they keep getting told it's not the ceiling free top management compensation packages and overhead that's hurting them, it's all the unions fault. Why should they want to change anything, that's not their idea, when the public at large...the people in the market, keep telling them they are the smartest of them all.
The American people are idol worshipers. The bigger the money the better they must be.

Well Now it is time that people in mang. are getting every thing cut. FORD cut 15% of their mang. work force 2 mo. ago and cut their pay and Benifits, now its time G.M. did it / At least the union people who took their cuts last fall will have some thing to fall back on unemployment and SUB pay. the retirees at least had the UNION take over the HEALTH care plan and have a voice in the retirement plan. so the UNION PEOPLE have more protection than MANG. people have / AS I said along time ago UNIONS do have their place they do do some good and I agree somtimes can do harm, this time atleast somthing good came for the union worker.

Steelie wrote:

Good Day,
It should be no mystery that I am staunchly anti-union, right Seenit ol' buddy? Hehe... However, I am a realist. It is not exclusively the fault of the unions that white collar jobs are being eliminated. It has happened before and will happen again. The primary reason for this is that the company is not profitable. It doesn't matter what the union does, if you can't produce a product that sells it makes no difference. To be certain, yes, long strikes can have a negative impact on a company, but if their products don't sell due to market conditions it doesn't matter. Try selling sand to a bedouin or lamb to a shepard. This is a direct response to the inability of management, engineering, design and the board to embrace change. The Detroit three have stubornly held on to their arrogant veiw of the marketplace and did not change when change was needed. Toyota and Honda saw the changes that were needed, and that is why they have become more successful. I remember a long time ago reading about how the Japanese economy rose post WWII. It was said that if you have an idea, they could perfect it. It was said that at the time the Japanese were not so much talented at having original thought (ideas) but that they could take an existing product and make it perform better. And so too with the auto industry. The Detroit three have resited change where as the Japanese have embraced it - and now we are seeing the results.
Steelie

If you are staunchly anti-union, then you are staunchly anti- workers rights, and against the working american people.

pro union wrote:

<quoted text>
If you are staunchly anti-union, then you are staunchly anti- workers rights, and against the working american people.

"PRO UNION " THE ONLY REASON I even brought this back up was " CHIP" I know everything about everything by just taking a tour of the AUTO PLANTS " he was big non union and every body will EARN what they GET and unions are no good well " i would like to ask all the salary people at FORD / G.M. NOW that FORD and G.M. cut your salary and ben. and the # of you still working wouldn't you be better off to be like the chry. mang. and HAVE A UNION? I guess we had better put out a call to " CHIP " I am sure HE will know what to do HE KNOWS EVERYTHING>

Steelie wrote:

Good Day,
It should be no mystery that I am staunchly anti-union, right Seenit ol' buddy? Hehe... However, I am a realist. It is not exclusively the fault of the unions that white collar jobs are being eliminated. It has happened before and will happen again. The primary reason for this is that the company is not profitable. It doesn't matter what the union does, if you can't produce a product that sells it makes no difference. To be certain, yes, long strikes can have a negative impact on a company, but if their products don't sell due to market conditions it doesn't matter. Try selling sand to a bedouin or lamb to a shepard. This is a direct response to the inability of management, engineering, design and the board to embrace change. The Detroit three have stubornly held on to their arrogant veiw of the marketplace and did not change when change was needed. Toyota and Honda saw the changes that were needed, and that is why they have become more successful. I remember a long time ago reading about how the Japanese economy rose post WWII. It was said that if you have an idea, they could perfect it. It was said that at the time the Japanese were not so much talented at having original thought (ideas) but that they could take an existing product and make it perform better. And so too with the auto industry. The Detroit three have resited change where as the Japanese have embraced it - and now we are seeing the results.
Steelie

" STEELIE" AS an auto worker for over 35 years I would have been set back on MY heels if just once MANG. would have come on the " FLOOR " and asked what " REAL people think about the car they are thinking about bringing out' DAH!!!!! IF the people that work for you don't like your prod. how can any body else? AND if there is somthing wrong why NOT ask the guy on the line [ you would amazed at what a person learns working on a line putting over 100,000 of the same parts together every year, if you really want to know what is wrong ask the person on the bottom rung and you will get the truth NOT what people in MANG. want you to think is going on { every thing is O.K. and we are doing good.]IT IS about time that the TOP BRASS in these CO.s get their a--'s on the shop floor with OUT the plant mang. or top sup. of that plant they would learn alot. been there and seen it.

Everybody's losing jobs and everyone is hurting. ITs funny how people who arent union bash unioners and people who are Union bash the managers. When the time is right.. Its very sad. I lost some respect for the union workers here who were defending their status from the ridiculous posts of the folks against unions..But now Im seeing some of the same from the union workers now...Look the managers that lost their jobs and arent union will have to get their resume together. The union workers who lost their job need to do the same. No buyout or severance package lasts forever.

Its not about union right or union wrong..

In this time, people should be standing together, and the ones who would rather point fingers and laugh at the other dont deserve a reply. Theyre too absorbed with themselves to help find a solution.. Last I knew it wasnt about being union or non-union, it was about being a decent human being and supporting one another. Were all in the same boat people.

Ouch, as a shareholder that means $200 million less for those of us who have taken a chance on the General. It also means $200 million less that GM can use to come up w new lines of autos that people will want to buy & are right for the times! This kind of expenditure is unnecessary & not in the best interest of this corporation. I hate to jump on the anti UAW bandwagon, heaven knows that club is far too big already, but this really is extortion.

Good Day,

Tbird - excellent point! I have to absolutely agree with you on that one. That was one of the reasons I took a summer job in a factory when in college. I was studying Industrial Design and wanted to get a better understanding of how things are put together so that hopefully I could be a better designer. But then I was offered a job in international business... anyway. My father worked at Steelcase back in the 80's and much of the 90's. And yes, he was on the top floor with the other V.P.s. Mind you this was back in the days when Steelcase was still a "family" company. I remember a great many times when he would come home from work, pop open a Miller Light and chat with my mom about their respective days. I can't tell you the number of times he said we did this and that and then we walked the "X" factory floor. These exectutives actually knew many of the folks on the factory floor on a first name basis. It is no wonder why they were successful. Maybe if instead of a round of golf...

Pro Union - perhaps I should clarify. I am more anti UAW than completely anti union. I personally think that the union management of the UAW are simply thugs looking to stuff their pockets on the backs of the working man. If one thinks executives are evil money grabbers, so too are the UAW union bosses. IMHO. I am all for a fair days wage for a fair days work. Healthcare and if viable a pension or 401K (locked so the company can't borrow from the funds). A 15 minute break every two hours with a 30 minute lunch and overtime. These are all simple and basic needs that one would have a hard time arguing against. There are unions out there that are just fine and dandy. Take the Millwrights for instance. The union helps to provide or ensure healthcare and retirement if I remember correctly. And, unlike the UAW, they don't scream bloody murder when a coctact comes up for re-negotiation. I believe that all a union should do is to make sure there is a safe working environment, healthcare and other benefits are taken care of, and that is about it. When it comes to a paycheck or raise it should be based on merit. Not just a blanket everyone gets a raise as we both know there are those who absolutley do not deserve a raise. That pay should be based on things such as attendance, arriving to work on time, knowledge of job, quality of work, ability to change or move from one position to another and so forth. It was mentioned a long time ago by a union employee who was fed up that those who are lazy gain benefit off of those who are working their tails off. That to me seems like a great injustice. What a slap in the face of those who work hard for their paycheck. If an employee shows that they are worth $30 an hour as they work hard and do a great job, then fine. But if I have an employee who does not show a certain level of enthusiasm, quality of work or is tardy, takes long breaks, well, I think they will stay at $8 an hour.

Which gets back to what Tbird mentioned above and Seenit has said many times before - management needs to get more involved! They do need to walk the factory floor more. Chat with employees and actually listen to what they are saying. It is a shame that it really has become something of an us vs. them mentality vs. that of being a team working toward the same goal of profitability.

Steelie

We will all be replaced by illegals before long. They will work for $5 an hour.

old_timer wrote:

<quoted text> I don't hear any of them on here complaining like yourself.........duhhhhhhhh