Hispanic immigrants need to fight back against anti-Latino bigotry

Roman Sulu Malay wrote:

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Because they stole it from the Mestiso(Spaniard/Native Californian) Californios.Who were a part of Mexico.

Obviously you are not from California, and you know nothing at all about our history.
Please stop spreading lies and propaganda when you do not have a clue as to what you are talking about.

Native California Indians were not "part of Mexico". There was no such place as "Mexico" here.

California was not part of "Mexico", when the Hispanics arrived here and stole our lands.
No such place as "Mexico" existed.
The Spanish called California (and the other lands they stole here) Nueva Espania (New Spain), not "Mexico". It was not called "Mexico" until hundreds of years after the Spanish came here.

No tribe called "Mexican", or "Aztec", or "Mayan" ever lived where California is now.

Here is the homeland of the "Mexican" tribes - the "Aztec" and "Mayan".
Here is the REAL "Aztlan" - 1000 miles south of the existing US/Mex border:
AZTLAN - http://www.crystalinks.com/aztecs.html

Meztiso are Mexican Indian and Spanish-European mixed, not Californian Indian and Spanish.

Meztiso were brought INTO the land of California by the Spanish to work as slaves after the Spanish (Hispanics) had exterminated over 200,000 of our California Indians (2/3 of our California Indians, and 1/4 of all Native American Indians living in the entire continental land which is now the USA).

Our California tribes were not "Mexican", or "meztiso". And are not now.
Our tribes never assimilated into any Mexican "culture", or Hispanic culture.

You need a history lesson. And you are not getting any truth from MEChA or La Raza, you never will.

The Spanish, who came here from Europe stole the lands of our California tribes, and made a planned extermination of our California tribes.
NONE of our tribes were ever "Mexican", or "Aztec", or "Mayan".

When those Hispanics from Europe built the missions of California, our tribes were rounded up and imprisoned in those missions, then subjected to mass slavery and genocide, by those Hispanic Europeans. During the mission years almost one quarter of a million California Native Indians were killed off by the Hispanic culture, in planned extermination.

No such place as "Mexico" existed before the Hispanics arrived here from Europe. No "Mexican" people existed. No "Mexican" culture existed, because there was no such place as "Mexico".

The Hispanic "culture" in California is not "Mexican" culture. It is European, of Hispanic origin, just as the language of Spanish came to this continent from EUROPE.

jadzzea wrote:

Your question is gibberish, you sound like an idiot.
Trouble with your caps lock key, almost any 12 year old could help you with that
You need treatment, go to detox (leave your crack and paraphernalia at home) pay attention to the counselors and after a few weeks you'll be better.
You are an adult? Incredible. I can't believe that.
Why the girlie's name?
Me the looser, coming from a guy with a girls name, sissy.
http://www.first-name-meanings.co.uk/yaotl-na ...
Did you make it to the last gay parade?
I may or may not be able to find more but unfortunatley I'm at work. Love break time. I admit I've heard worse and at least some of the comments were toward people who made some rude remarks themselves, although a couple were unnecessary toward SC, everyone has bad typnig days. Even though some deserved it, being rude back doesn't help anything except to keep people fired up and coming back. Might be your goal as editor but still......

Rude? what do you consider you comments? At any rate your opinion means little to me as I have a long standing relationship with several people on here that you have no idea about. If you need to try to change my opinion or method of expression, you have an up hill battle.
Now, would you care to comment on the subject?

Roman Sulu Malay wrote:

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Nothing I'm Mestiso myself and I look like a Mexican.. I'm Cuban (Native Cuban, European, African) Italian (sicilian) on my Dad's side and Filipino on my moms side. I can tell you that I get discriminated against because I look like a Mexican..
So then, What determines a race? If you talk about science and Race there is very little validity to what a race is as there is no sub-category of humans like there are in dogs or apes. Social Perception is an exponentially more important factor. Therefore, If they perceive themselves as a separate race who are we to tell them different!? They are a new race born of Aztec, other Native American Tribes, Spaniard and African blood!

Race is a specific category, to use the race card is a dead end answer to an open ended discussion that simple has no validation. There are indeed sub-categories of race, anthropologically speaking, but have little to do with the words Hispanic, Latino, Mexican, Guatemalan, florist, mechanic, etc.. It is counter productive to constantly attempt to categorize people in separate ethnic groups to further an argument of law V. free for all.

Roman Sulu Malay wrote:

<quoted text>
Because they stole it from the Mestiso(Spaniard/Native Californian) Californios.Who were a part of Mexico.

The land was not "stole" it was fought over, lost and then payed for, done deal, get over it. Your not getting it back, you would have a better chance at Guatemala, which used to be part of Mexico. Why not try that?

Cheyenne Z wrote:

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Native California Indians were not "part of Mexico". There was no such place as "Mexico" here.
California was not part of "Mexico", when the Hispanics arrived here and stole our lands.
No such place as "Mexico" existed.

Ah yes I love this so called "valid" argument of yours. You state that prior to the spanish arrival there was no such place as "Mexico" and yet oddly enough you fail to state that there was no such place as "California" as well. And why did no such places exist? Because collectively the natives of current day Mexico and current day United States did not recognize borders. Collectively they traveled and migrated freely at will, unabated. Archaeological evidence has already proven that

Cheyenne Z wrote:

<quoted text>The Spanish called California (and the other lands they stole here) Nueva Espania (New Spain), not "Mexico". It was not called "Mexico" until hundreds of years after the Spanish came here.

LOL..umm you do know that Nueva España also included current day Mexico as one of its territories right? You must since you said "other lands they stole" but then you add "here" so that's why I ask if you recognize that the territories of modern day Mexico should be included as well.

Cheyenne Z wrote:

<quoted text>No tribe called "Mexican", or "Aztec", or "Mayan" ever lived where California is now.

Ehhh first and foremost Mexica, Aztec, & Mayan were Empires not tribes.
But to humor you "yes" tribes that live or lived (and vice versa)in Mexico are also recognized as indigenous to the lands of California, Texas, Arizona etc. etc...the term Native American btw does not only mean peoples of current day U.S.A but ALL the Americas.

Cheyenne Z wrote:

<quoted text>Meztiso are Mexican Indian and Spanish-European mixed, not Californian Indian and Spanish.

In the United States, the term "multiracial" is used to identify individuals of mixed multi-racial heritages, while "Mestizo" is the Spanish term used for the combination of European and Amerindian ancestry...and what is in "Amerindian"? An "Amerindian" are the collective peoples of the "Americas" and what or where is the "Americas"? I think you know (fyi it's just not the U.S.)
There are also Filipino mestizos. In a broader terms mestizo means "racially mixed"
Spanish (Mestizo)= English (Multiracial)

Pandora wrote:

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So true. Blaming people that have been encouraged by their own government and winked at by ours is ridiculous. Illegal aliens and American citizens need to get the message about what is really going on. This has to stop. Picking on illegals is not the real answer to the problem. I do understand everyone's frustration. Hispanics come here without permission, don't speak English, and make demands. This is irritating and makes them an easy target. Hispanics don't deserve preferential treatment when it comes to immigration. There are so many of them that it lets the government shift the blame and we all keep getting the shaft.

Demanding that the laws be enforced is not "picking on illegals." Maybe we are "picking" on thieves, forgers, embezzlers, etc. too by enforcing those laws?

PP_LA wrote:

<quoted text>Demanding that the laws be enforced is not "picking on illegals." Maybe we are "picking" on thieves, forgers, embezzlers, etc. too by enforcing those laws?

Good point. I do think the law needs to be enforced. There is a lot of blame to go around in this mess. The government allowed this in order to assist business to ignore labor laws. The people that have come here illegally have done so at their own risk. They are well aware that they are breaking the law. The only way to stop this is enforcement. No exceptions. Hispanics don't deserve preferential treatment. Here is Florida, however, we have a large population of citizens from Puerto Rico and Cuban refugees. The assumption that all Hispanics are illegal is incorrect. I find it ironic that people were encouraged to break the law and now will suffer the consequences. I would like to see the politicians pay also!

I find it Ironic that the Screen name of the Poster above "Aztlan", and creator of this topic - is the SAME name as that of the Racist " Aztlan" Group that promotes Mexican Illegal Immigrants to cross into the USA Illegally, Fights for them to Abuse the Public assistance Programs,In the USA,admonishes its Members /followers to Have as Many Children as thay can to " Reconquor" the Southwest" for Mexicans,and is Prone to Violence in the VERY Tenets and Charter it created in its " AZTLAN" Document- Additionally- the few Posts I perused By this and the Supporters of the Poster "AZTLAN" reflect the same Racist Rhetoric, Incorrect Historic Fact in many areas, Untrue statements , and Misconceptioins they promote

Aztlan wrote:

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You state that prior to the spanish arrival there was no such place as "Mexico"
<quoted text>Ehhh first and foremost Mexica, Aztec, & Mayan were Empires not tribes.
But to humor you "yes" tribes that live or lived (and vice versa)in Mexico are also recognized as indigenous to the lands of California, Texas, Arizona etc. etc...the term Native American btw does not only mean peoples of current day U.S.A but ALL the Americas.

You don't know anything about our tribes. Your post is clear evidence of that.

You reconquesta idiots keep insisting that Mexico was here "first". Prove it.
The Spanish were in the US southwest lands for 400 years before the sovereign nation of "Mexico" was established.
When the Spanish came here they called the land "Nueva Espania", and claimed it in the name of the European nation of Spain.
There was no "Mexico".
There were no "Mexican" people.
There were only tribes. And yes, our tribes had homelands, no they did not "travel freely" as you claim, that is an untruth.
If you actually KNEW anything about the true history of this continent you might already know that. But apparently you are so misinformed and deluded by propaganda and lies, you lack even the most rudimentary education about the factual history of this land.

Your inability to recognize the sovereignty of the tribes of the US lands, apart from the Mexican tribes,(not even all U.S. tribes were one big family, there was always war), is ludicrous.
The tribes warred with each other, fought to keep other tribes out of their lands.
The Mexican tribes from south of the Rio Grande were not "free to travel" anywhere they wanted north of the Rio Grande, because they were trespassing on other tribal homelands, and the only reason they would most likely come north would be to wage war, steal, rape, kill.

The tribes which lived in the land which is Mexico now are certainly NOT recognized as "indigenous" to California. LOL!
Now I know you are uneducated.
The tribes of Mexico are recogized as "indigenous" TO MEXICO, NOT to California, or Arizona, or New Mexico or Texas. LMAO!
You have really been brainwashed by a pack of lies.

Try checking the BIA and see how far you get with that one. They will laugh you right out the door.
You even proved yourself uneducated with your next line - "Aztec is not a tribe, Mayan is not a tribe.. they are empires"
The United States recognizes "tribes" as being "indigenous" to the US lands, there is no "empire" recognized as being "indigenous to any part of the USA. Not in California, LOL, not in Arizona, LOL, not in Texas, LOL, not in New Mexico, LOL, NOWHERE.

Your "empires" are indigenous to MEXICO, the land SOUTH of the existing border.

Here is where your Aztec, and Mayan "empires" are "indigenous" to:http://www.crystalinks.com/ aztecs.html
1000 miles south of the US/Mex border, in south/central Mexico, not on any US lands.

The Indios of Mexico are Native Mexican Indians.

Cheyenne Z wrote:

<quoted text>
You don't know anything about our tribes. Your post is clear evidence of that.
You reconquesta idiots keep insisting that Mexico was here "first". Prove it.
The Spanish were in the US southwest lands for 400 years before the sovereign nation of "Mexico" was established.

LOL..Your post is riddled with holes I don't even know where to begin..but let me reiterate so you get it clear. Prior to the arrival of any European there was no U.S., there was no Mexico, for the most part there was no recognition of borders because they didn't exist period, my only "insistence" is that I recognize that the peoples of current day Mexico did in fact live in the current United States as they had for millennia. The Spanish may have been here 400 years before the sovereign nation of Mexico was established or titled, but they did not precede the Natives of the Americas which traveled the breadth of these lands. Again you seem to think that Native American only means the indigenous of the current United States..you are wrong.
The northern Uto-Aztecan occupied a large section of the American Southwest. Among them were the Hopi and Zuni Indians of New Mexico and the Gabrielino Indians of the Los Angeles Basin. The Central Uto-Aztecan - occupying large parts of Chihuahua, Sinaloa and Sonora in northwestern Mexico - included the Papago, Opata, Yaqui, Mayo, Concho, Huichol and Tepehuán. It is reasonable to assume that where there is a linguistic relationship there is also a genetic relationship.

Aztlan wrote:

<quoted text>LOL..It is reasonable to assume that where there is a linguistic relationship there is also a genetic relationship.

Listen idiot I am genetically Native American, German, Irish, and French, but I don't speak those languages I speak English even though I have 0% English blood. Also just because Uto-Aztecan has similar linguistic basics doesn't mean all those people can understand each other, just like Chinese who speak Mandarin cannot understand Chinese who speak Cantonese.

But this entire discussion is moot, today this land is the United States of America and Native Americans pledge allegiance to the US Eagle flag and Constitution as well as to their own tribe. You need to either do the same or leave the USA. I can tell you for a fact we will not let "Aztlan" happen.

Bowman wrote:

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Listen idiot I am genetically Native American, German, Irish, and French, but I don't speak those languages I speak English even though I have 0% English blood. Also just because Uto-Aztecan has similar linguistic basics doesn't mean all those people can understand each other, just like Chinese who speak Mandarin cannot understand Chinese who speak Cantonese.
But this entire discussion is moot, today this land is the United States of America and Native Americans pledge allegiance to the US Eagle flag and Constitution as well as to their own tribe. You need to either do the same or leave the USA. I can tell you for a fact we will not let "Aztlan" happen.

Wanna know the funny part about the quote you pulled from me: I pulled it from a white anthropologist who stated that fact. Call him the idiot if you wish.
Ironically you can scour the net and find that as a whole many Native U.S. indigenous tribes are opposed to borders and the current attitudes and practices used in todays immigration policies (look it up). In fact many Native U.S. are resentful of the so called "American Flag & its Government" to the point where they wish to secede from the U.S. The very flag you speak of is what delegated the natives to reservations, the U.S. military and government under the guise of this so called American flag is what put a bounty on the heads of each native living at that time.
And to your dismay, you my friend are at the losing end, immigration legal or otherwise is here to stay it cannot be stopped and you know it. When the wall is built and fails, I'm just gonna laugh my ass off and I won't even have to lift a finger to see it happen.

Bowman wrote:

<quoted text>
Listen idiot I am genetically Native American, German, Irish, and French, but I don't speak those languages I speak English even though I have 0% English blood. Also just because Uto-Aztecan has similar linguistic basics doesn't mean all those people can understand each other, just like Chinese who speak Mandarin cannot understand Chinese who speak Cantonese.
But this entire discussion is moot, today this land is the United States of America and Native Americans pledge allegiance to the US Eagle flag and Constitution as well as to their own tribe. You need to either do the same or leave the USA. I can tell you for a fact we will not let "Aztlan" happen.

Interesting thing here is the claim the Indians had no borders, that is false other then perhaps the plains Indians, who followed the herd and the Yaqui who were known for there travels. There were wars between them every time they bumped heads and infringed on territory believed to be theirs.
The Aztec territory was wholly owned be the Nobles and if not being expanded, was protected from intrusion at all times. Their arch enemies were the Tlaxaltecas and the Purepechas, both of which were instrumental in Cortez defeating their empire.

Cheyenne Z wrote:

<quoted text>
script

lol plz.. You're not Native Californian so nothing you said mattered.. The fact that Mexico had this
I am from California.
"Californios included both the descendants of European settlers from Spain and Mexico, and also included other European settlers, Mestizos, and local Native Americans who adopted Spanish culture and converted to Christianity. Some white Americans, who settled in California, spoke Spanish, and lived as Mexicans, are also considered Californios."
-Wiki
"When Mexico attained its Independence from Spain in 1822 all Americans were excited. It was nearly the Fiftieth Anniversity of American Independence and now Independence was raging through Latin America like a prairie fire. Americans rightly looked at this as following its example. And Americans expected great things of these newly Independent countries. It would be a new New World.
Americans expected great things of Mexico. At the time of Independence Mexico had a larger population in an even larger land area. Mexico had more resources, the wealth of large silver mines, a more organized government and what seemed like unlimited potential.
"Even by 1840 many European countries expected the U.S. to lose any war with Mexico. So it was a surprise when in 1846 the U.S. invaded Mexico, defeated its army and took what is now the American Southwest. England and France may have known of Mexico's weakness, both their ships patrolled the west coast to take advantage of any opportunity to grab California for themselves."
-Wiki

^^^ The fact that Mexico was conquered by the US who then forced the Mestisos south because they weren't good enough to be citizens said a lot. I guess that mentality still holds today.

Rogerg wrote:

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Race is a specific category, to use the race card is a dead end answer to an open ended discussion that simple has no validation. There are indeed sub-categories of race, anthropologically speaking, but have little to do with the words Hispanic, Latino, Mexican, Guatemalan, florist, mechanic, etc.. It is counter productive to constantly attempt to categorize people in separate ethnic groups to further an argument of law V. free for all.

Well, 95% of all anthropologists and archaeologists are white! So of course they would categorize people according to what would benefit their society. I've had this discussion with an anthropologist and he does not attempt to determine race, but rather culture.

Bowman wrote:

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I can tell you for a fact we will not let "Aztlan" happen.

Don't worry about that, hispanics do not wish for Aztlan to happen nither.
That's not the plan.

Rogerg wrote:

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The land was not "stole" it was fought over, lost and then payed for, done deal, get over it. Your not getting it back, you would have a better chance at Guatemala, which used to be part of Mexico. Why not try that?

Fought over? If a more powerful country invades another and when they win the war does not return the land, that's not stealing? If your 5 year old boy came into your house crying that a 13-year old juvenile 'fought' him and then 'won' his lunch money, would you tell him that was fair?

I'm not saying Mexico will get it back.. I'm saying that eventually the majority of the people in California WILL be of Mexican descent by the year 2050 however.. Same with Arizona and MANY other states.

Bowman wrote:

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Listen idiot I am genetically Native American, German, Irish, and French, but I don't speak those languages I speak English even though I have 0% English blood. Also just because Uto-Aztecan has similar linguistic basics doesn't mean all those people can understand each other, just like Chinese who speak Mandarin cannot understand Chinese who speak Cantonese.
But this entire discussion is moot, today this land is the United States of America and Native Americans pledge allegiance to the US Eagle flag and Constitution as well as to their own tribe. You need to either do the same or leave the USA. I can tell you for a fact we will not let "Aztlan" happen.

In other words, he's 5% Native American and 95% of various European descent.

This discussion is ridiculous. Money that should be going into programs to help our long-suffering black community is being siphoned off by an ethnic group that has a false sense of entitlement. The rampant use of Anchor babies exploits the intended protection of the 14th Amendment (one of the amendments made to protect black citizens after the civil war) is disgusting. Affirmative action is for black citizens (in my opinion). They have been here, made a contribution, and deserve help. Hispanics don't deserve preferential treatment. People all over the world want to come to America. What about Africans? This invasion is wrong on many more levels. Labor law is ignored and fair wages a thing of the past. What a mess. I hope immigration raids start to get the message across that none of us will continue to put up with this. The government ignored this far too long in order to support greedy business and circumvent labor laws. Whine about racism all you want. This ethnic preferential treatment has to stop.