LCMS pastors' statement

John David "Johnny" Gosch (born November 12, 1969) was a 12-year-old paperboy in West Des Moines, Iowa when he disappeared on September 5, 1982, presumably kidnapped. His case and the subsequent publicity played an important part in the growing public awareness of missing children cases in the 1980s.
His mother, Noreen Gosch, maintains that Johnny Gosch escaped from his captors and visited her in 1997, but fears for his life and lives under an assumed identity. Gosch's father, divorced since 1993, publicly stated that he was not sure whether the visit occurred.[1] Authorities have not located Gosch or confirmed Ms. Gosch's account, and his fate continues to be a subject of speculation, conspiracy theories, and dispute.
The case received publicity in 2006 when photographs possibly showing Gosch in captivity were supposedly left at his mother's doorstep.
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By her estimation, the police did not arrive to take her report for a full 45 minutes.
Police came to believe that Gosch was kidnapped, but they did not establish a motive.[3] They turned up little evidence and arrested no suspects in connection with the case.[4]
Several private investigators assisted the Gosches over the years. Among them are Jim Rothstein, a retired New York City police detective; and Ted Gunderson, a retired chief of the Los Angeles FBI branch.
In 1984, Gosch's photograph appeared alongside that of Juanita Rafaela Estavez on milk cartons across America; they were the first two abducted children to have their plights publicized in this way.[5][dubious – discuss]
[edit] National interest
Johnny Gosch quickly became a poster boy for missing children across the nation. Gosch's disappearance became something of a cautionary tale to midwestern youth, Johnny Gosch jokes swept the nation's schoolyards, and dollar bills began turning up with "Help me!- Johnny Gosch" scrawled across them.
The case snowballed into a national interest as Noreen Gosch became increasingly vocal about the inadequacy of law enforcement investigation of missing children cases. She established the Johnny Gosch foundation in 1982, through which she visited schools and gave seminars about the modus operandi of sexual predators. She lobbied for "The Johnny Gosch Bill", state legisation which would mandate an immediate police response to reports of missing children. The bill became law in Iowa in 1984, and similar or identical laws were later passed in Missouri and seven other states.[6]
In August 1984, Ms. Gosch testified in Senate hearings on organized crime, speaking about "organized pedophilia" and its alleged role in her son's abduction. She began receiving death threats.[citation needed] Ms. Gosch also testified before the U.S. Department of Justice, which provided 10 million dollars to establish the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. Ms. Gosch was invited to the White House by President Ronald Reagan for the dedication ceremony.[7]
[edit] Another missing paperboy
In 1984, another Des Moines-area paperboy disappeared under similar circumstances. Eugene Wade Martin disappeared while delivering newspapers on the south side of Des Moines. Authorities have been unable to prove a connection between the two cases, yet Ms. Gosch claims that she was personally informed of the abduction weeks in advance by a private investigator who was searching for her son.[8] Her account is uncorroborated.
[edit] A confession
In 1989, Paul Bonacci - a young sex offender imprisoned in Nebraska - told attorney John DeCamp that he was in a sex ring with Gosch as a teenager and was coerced into participating in Gosch's abduction.

Pedophilia or sexual abuse of children are not homosexuality. Most sexual abuse of children are committed by heterosexuals. Debasing gays by accusing their community is not only wrong, but dangerous. A hugh numbrer of pedophiles "hide" as respected community members and are not living in the gay community.

Actually, pedophiles are not heterosexual, they're pedophiles. Prefering to have sex with a girl or boy child is not about heterosexuality, it is about pedophilia.

Two Cents wrote:

Actually, pedophiles are not heterosexual, they're pedophiles. Prefering to have sex with a girl or boy child is not about heterosexuality, it is about pedophilia.

MINCING WORDS. Homosexuals as well as heterosexuals abuse children. Homosexuality or heterosexuality are not child abuse. Pedophilia is not a sexual orientation, it is a mental disorder. Pedophilia and homosexuality are not the same thing,

dew4794 wrote:

<quoted text>
MINCING WORDS. Homosexuals as well as heterosexuals abuse children. Homosexuality or heterosexuality are not child abuse. Pedophilia is not a sexual orientation, it is a mental disorder. Pedophilia and homosexuality are not the same thing,

There is no mincing words in my statement. Pedophiles are not heterosexuals, and, I agree, they are not gay. I would beg to differ with you that pedophilia is not a sexual orientation - albeit a vile one. I would also agree with you that pedophilia and homosexuality are not the same thing. I don't believe I made any statement suggesting that they were the same thing.

The North American Man Boy Love Association (NAMBLA)would also beg to differ with you about pedophilia being a sexual orientation. This association follows quite closely the legal success of gay groups, and files like legal challenges that are an effort to bring about change in perspective and law regarding men who are sexually oriented to young boys. They contend that, like gays, they are discriminated against because of their sexual preferences, orientation, I believe they call it. They contend too, that like gays, they are misunderstood, and that it is perfectly natural for men to want to have sex with young boys. They believe that laws governing a young boy's sexual activities are wrong, and that it is a violation of human rights to legally prevent them from pursuing their natural urges to have sex with whomever they choose at whatever age they choose. They believe that, like gays, society will eventually become accepting of their sexual orientation - which is why they adamantly support gay rights. They also believe that, like gayness, their sexual orientation will one day cease to be perceived by society as a mental illness.

That's their beliefs as they promote them on their web site; not my own beliefs. If you ask me, it's not even worth two cents.

None of this has anything to do with pedophiles. Thats a bullshit argument.
The original point is, the public at large are leaving behind the old ideas on sexual morality. It was true in the 70's even that so called Evangelicals did not practice what they preached in sexuality. Now the gap between beliefs and practice is even wider. younger people are more compasionate concerning gay people who they understand were born that way and can't be said to be responsible for having that preference.
The old conservative bunch will end up being seen like KKK night riders and nut case haters by the vast majority of people who will accept modern science over blind faith.

do what wrote:

try to reread it . it is quite clear!!!!!<quoted text>

very interesting school me on the part about procreating
CAN HOMOSEXUALS DO THAT GET REAL
I THINK NOT!!!!!

Really wrote:

<quoted text>
very interesting school me on the part about procreating
CAN HOMOSEXUALS DO THAT GET REAL
I THINK NOT!!!!!

so....if the big problem is that homosexuals can't procreate are you saying that everyone who can't or doesn't procreate shouldn't be allowed in the church?? If so, what do you think about Priests and Nuns? They don't procreate, are they banned from churches or heaven? What about the unfortunate folks who can't have children for one reason or another?? What about those of us who never marry?? Are we all destined for hell and banned from churches????

You need to think through your logic before you post a non-sense comment like this.

Prodigal Son wrote:

None of this has anything to do with pedophiles. Thats a bullshit argument.
The original point is, the public at large are leaving behind the old ideas on sexual morality. It was true in the 70's even that so called Evangelicals did not practice what they preached in sexuality. Now the gap between beliefs and practice is even wider. younger people are more compasionate concerning gay people who they understand were born that way and can't be said to be responsible for having that preference.
The old conservative bunch will end up being seen like KKK night riders and nut case haters by the vast majority of people who will accept modern science over blind faith.

the reason the gap as you say between belief and pratice is that Satan and his workers are working very hard to make it that way, many christians are drifting away from the Scripture and following thw ways of the world

curious wrote:

<quoted text>
so....if the big problem is that homosexuals can't procreate are you saying that everyone who can't or doesn't procreate shouldn't be allowed in the church?? If so, what do you think about Priests and Nuns? They don't procreate, are they banned from churches or heaven? What about the unfortunate folks who can't have children for one reason or another?? What about those of us who never marry?? Are we all destined for hell and banned from churches????
You need to think through your logic before you post a non-sense comment like this.

Can a man and a man create a child via intercourse? Can a woman and woman create a child via intercourse?

At the end of the day none of this matters "for all have sinned and fell short of the glory of god"

If these people are Christians as they profess, including LCMS, then they should know that God forgives all sins...all of them. Why are you all even wasting time arguing this topic when you know that all sins are forgiven? It is useless. God is the judge and the Bible clearly states that all you have to do is accept Christ as your savior to get into heaven. God is the judge...not LCMS pastors, not "birdman," not "two cents," not "viewing the marching morons,"...only God. If these people are so sure that Gays are excluded from heaven and therefore should be excluded from church, then they are just plain wrong. I have yet to see someone to make a good argument for anti-gay sentiment... not one logical argument. For me, God is clear in his words.

Romans 10; 8-13 NLV

8 In fact, it says,
“The message is very close at hand;
it is on your lips and in your heart.”
And that message is the very message about faith that we preach: 9 If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved. 11 As the Scriptures tell us,“Anyone who trusts in him will never be disgraced.”[v] 12 Jew and Gentile[w] are the same in this respect. They have the same Lord, who gives generously to ALL who call on him. 13 For “EVERYONE who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Most homosexuals I know believe in God and still trust him as their personal saviors. Therefore...they get into heaven

Prodigal Son wrote:

None of this has anything to do with pedophiles. Thats a bullshit argument.
The original point is, the public at large are leaving behind the old ideas on sexual morality. It was true in the 70's even that so called Evangelicals did not practice what they preached in sexuality. Now the gap between beliefs and practice is even wider. younger people are more compasionate concerning gay people who they understand were born that way and can't be said to be responsible for having that preference.
The old conservative bunch will end up being seen like KKK night riders and nut case haters by the vast majority of people who will accept modern science over blind faith.

Oh, you don't like my information? Well, if you are gay, you have much in common with pedophiliacs. They, too, believe that they have no choice about the way they were born. Indeed, science supports that, because there is no cure for pedophilia. Which is perhaps where gays and pedophiles most certainly differ; many gays wake one day to perhaps a chemical change in their bodies, and decide they are not gay after all. On the other hand, many heterosexuals wake to one day discover, hey, they prefer the same sex on a sexual level. Go figure.

But what you and pedophiles definitely have in common is the struggle to convince society that your preferences are natural, you are born that way, and, thus, as having been born that way, an anomally though you may be, society must accept you. You inundate the rest of society with images, literature, and activities that bring attention to yourselves so that it acclamates them to an idea that is foreign to them. Once they become inured of the images, the behavior, the activities, then their response to it likewise becomes less and less the more they are exposed to it. One day, they just ignore you, and then you begin to lobby to pass laws that recognize you as being special, more entitled than others. And even though, regardless of your sexual preferences, you are as human as the heterosexual, you hold yourself out as being different, special, and deserving of special considerations in society. Until society is so tired and beaten down by your BS that they relent and sentence someone who happens to kill a gay person to twice the punishment of someone who kills a heterosexual.

Gayness is even less an orientation than pedophilia, which cannot be cured. Gayness, many psychologists argue, is a condition that can be reversed with the proper therapy. That's all I'm saying.

I see from your response that it's just a little harder to call yourself gay when you think of yourself in the same boat as a pedophile. Oh, well, that's the boat you're in, so get over yourself.

Actually, Prodigal, the courts are more compassionate too - towards gays and pedophiles. Gays have been successful in furthering "hate laws," which distinguish, somehow, though it's lost on me, from the rest of society so that if someone hurts you physically, it's a hate crime, carrying more punishment. Pedophiles, too, were successful in using the courts to make progress on their own behalf. Some years ago the Supreme Court ruled that animated child pornography was exempt from the laws governing child pornography, because they did not depict a real child. Animataion, the courts held, were an artistic expression and protected under that Constitutional right (freedom of expression). Today, animated child pornography is as acceptable as gays in bed on television. How about that. You folks have sure made progress.

I might add, too, that I am unmoved by the liberal argument made by celebrities who say they won't marry until gays can marry. I will continue to vote down those propositions, and I won't wait for the wedding invitation to arrive any time soon. Guess the traditional he/she weddings will have to sustain me.

I'm a deist , look it up and if you have any common sense you will "see the light".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism

The simplest fact is religion has killed more people than it has "saved". We can all agree on that, no matter what side your on.

Be a good person and believe in your family. That's it. I hope there is an after life, we all need something to look forward to. But, if there is a god whom has power over our lives, than that is no person I would give the time of day to. I have been through too much to be able to believe a higher "better" power could have changed it but didn't for some unknown reason. And if he could have but didn't, than Id rather spend my time with the devil, at least we know his intentions are bad.

The world would be a better place without religion, maybe a little overcrowded, but maybe those we lost over religious disagreements would have made a difference.

If you would rather spend time with the devil, you may get your preference. But once with him, I am quite certain you will wish you could go back in time and listen again to Jesus and the words of forgiveness and eternal life he has to offer.

The Bible admits that there are many things in it, at least in Paul's writings, that are hard to understand. Certainly God has not revealed every-thing he knows. "The secret things belong unto the Lord our God, but those which are revealed belong unto us and to our children forever" (Deuteronomy 29:29). If you can't figure most of the Bible out or answer questions which seem to have no logical answer, at least know this, that you are not a perfect person but a sinner, that Jesus Christ died as your substitute on the cross, and that you will go to heaven by believing that he is your Savior.

Blogs like this can confuse as well as make clear. Everyone can say what they want. But one truth stands out clearly for you and every reader, "By grace are you saved, through faith, and this not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, so that no one can boast."

If you need to forget the rest, at least hang on to this. It will keep your eternity something to look forward to.

Ashes to ashes and dust to dust.

I am betting on the Bible.

Good luck wherever you think you guys are going.

Scripture is quite clear.

Prodigal Son wrote:

The conservative evangelicals are being left in the dust. They will ban gays while they fade from veiw. Modern people are more compassionate than these Ministers who follow sexual ideas from 2000 years ago and reject scientific psychological ideas.

Come on wrote:

I'm a deist , look it up and if you have any common sense you will "see the light".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism
The simplest fact is religion has killed more people than it has "saved". We can all agree on that, no matter what side your on.
Be a good person and believe in your family. That's it. I hope there is an after life, we all need something to look forward to. But, if there is a god whom has power over our lives, than that is no person I would give the time of day to. I have been through too much to be able to believe a higher "better" power could have changed it but didn't for some unknown reason. And if he could have but didn't, than Id rather spend my time with the devil, at least we know his intentions are bad.
The world would be a better place without religion, maybe a little overcrowded, but maybe those we lost over religious disagreements would have made a difference.

Well, your statements tend to contradict your claim that you are a deist - look it up on your own site. There is a place in this world for organized religion. It is the first step that many individuals take when seeking to raise their selves to a higher mental and spiritual place than where they have been as a result of those hardships you talk about. Without the church, they have nowhere else to turn to take that step - unless, of course, you're opening your door to them for free spaghetti dinners?

I wouold note, sadly, that you refer us to Wikipedia for information in support of your ideas - big mistake. There is nothing credible about people building their own definitions and positing them as definitions. If you want to make a credible point, you might first, understand the definition you are using in relation to the statements you are making; and, secondly, point us to some credible literature in support of your ideas. Otherwise, thank you for expressing your opinion - everyone has one.

Its all very clear, man and man cannot bear children, nor woman and woman. Yes, for some can adopt, but not bear children. I have enjoyed and been a member of the Lutheran Church for a many many years. So many times people want to believe that what "they do" is not wrong. If the Bible we speak of , and use as I do says that it is wrong, generally it is. Love one another, and forgive one another, thats what we can do. Help your fellow neighbor... and ask God for forgiveness. May we all have a place in Heaven with Him. God Bless

A Lutheran church member wrote:

Its all very clear, man and man cannot bear children, nor woman and woman. Yes, for some can adopt, but not bear children. I have enjoyed and been a member of the Lutheran Church for a many many years. So many times people want to believe that what "they do" is not wrong. If the Bible we speak of , and use as I do says that it is wrong, generally it is. Love one another, and forgive one another, thats what we can do. Help your fellow neighbor... and ask God for forgiveness. May we all have a place in Heaven with Him. God Bless

I am a convert to the LCMS and find it a wonderful place to learn and serve the Lord. I want a church that proclaims the Christ of the Gospel not making my or someone elses Gospel for Christ.
If you are LCMS you are worshiping the Lord in both Word and Sacrament. I welcome others from sound Christian denominations such as Southern Baptist, PCA Presbyterians, Catholics and others as my Christian Brothers and Sisters. For this thread there are versus in the New Testament such as in Acts, Romans and Corinthians to look to for guideance.