LCMS pastors' statement

The conservative evangelicals are being left in the dust. They will ban gays while they fade from veiw. Modern people are more compassionate than these Ministers who follow sexual ideas from 2000 years ago and reject scientific psychological ideas.

The Missouri Synod (misery synod) has drifted further away from the progress of Christianity. They do not pray with other christians, called unionism. They took one of their Presidents (bishops) to trial for joining in worship at the 911 memorial in NYC. LCMS does not allow women as clergy. They do not support fraternal organizations. Many churches to not permit visitors to receive the sacraments. AND THEY DO N[OT WELCOME CHARISMATICS.
AND THEY HAVE A QUARREL WITH ELCA?

Ministers who follow sexual ideas from 2000 years ago are following the Word of God, not the ideas of Man.

There is a difference. It's not a gray area. It's not a philosophy of contention. The Bible is very clear on the subject of homosexuality, beastiality, etc...

The Bible is also very clear on forgiveness, casting the first stone, and staying true to the Word of God.

Stay out of my bedroom, and I'll stay out of yours. Stay out of my business and I'll do you the same favor. It is not for me to judge. Your choices are between you, whoever you're with, and God (whether you believe in Him, or not).

The Bible is not CLEAR on the subject of homosexuality. And your ministers who "follow ideas about sex from 2000 years ago are wackos.
1. The Bible does not clearly condemn homosexuality.
2. Of the very few passages, they are about sex in the pagan temples of their neighbors.
3. The issue in Sodom was about soliciting of gang rape and female child molestation.
4. The NT words translated homosexuality are not common words in Greek for that word.
5. Homosexuality is a word first used in 1869 not at the time of the Bible.
6. The Bible never speaks of love and sex both together.
7. The Gospels never say a word about same sex as a sin even when referring to the sins of Sodom.
8. Two words in Greek are translated as one, homosexual, in English, an obvious error.
9. The King James Version of the Bible translates whoremongers not homosexuals.
10. Abominations are idolatry wrongs.
11. Ezekiel does not mention sexual sins in its list of sin at Sodom and Gomorrah.
12 The same Sodom story is mentioned in Judges only with heterosexuals.

gee, what is with this thread. can't we just get back to the people bashing.

try to reread it . it is quite clear!!!!!

dew4794 wrote:

The Bible is not CLEAR on the subject of homosexuality. And your ministers who "follow ideas about sex from 2000 years ago are wackos.
1. The Bible does not clearly condemn homosexuality.
2. Of the very few passages, they are about sex in the pagan temples of their neighbors.
3. The issue in Sodom was about soliciting of gang rape and female child molestation.
4. The NT words translated homosexuality are not common words in Greek for that word.
5. Homosexuality is a word first used in 1869 not at the time of the Bible.
6. The Bible never speaks of love and sex both together.
7. The Gospels never say a word about same sex as a sin even when referring to the sins of Sodom.
8. Two words in Greek are translated as one, homosexual, in English, an obvious error.
9. The King James Version of the Bible translates whoremongers not homosexuals.
10. Abominations are idolatry wrongs.
11. Ezekiel does not mention sexual sins in its list of sin at Sodom and Gomorrah.
12 The same Sodom story is mentioned in Judges only with heterosexuals.

do what wrote:

try to reread it . it is quite clear!!!!!<quoted text>

If it is clear -- then quote chapter and verse....

dew4794 wrote:

The Bible is not CLEAR on the subject of homosexuality. And your ministers who "follow ideas about sex from 2000 years ago are wackos.
1. The Bible does not clearly condemn homosexuality.
2. Of the very few passages, they are about sex in the pagan temples of their neighbors.
3. The issue in Sodom was about soliciting of gang rape and female child molestation.
4. The NT words translated homosexuality are not common words in Greek for that word.
5. Homosexuality is a word first used in 1869 not at the time of the Bible.
6. The Bible never speaks of love and sex both together.
7. The Gospels never say a word about same sex as a sin even when referring to the sins of Sodom.
8. Two words in Greek are translated as one, homosexual, in English, an obvious error.
9. The King James Version of the Bible translates whoremongers not homosexuals.
10. Abominations are idolatry wrongs.
11. Ezekiel does not mention sexual sins in its list of sin at Sodom and Gomorrah.
12 The same Sodom story is mentioned in Judges only with heterosexuals.

Leviticus 20:13 clearly states: If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.

well actually wrote:

<quoted text>
Leviticus 20:13 clearly states: If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.

This abomination is the subject of idol worship to foreign gods.

Since there are 112 verses that use the word tow'ebah, I am not going to c&p all of them here. Go and read the word IN CONTEXT.

Weeping is not an abomination, but weeping for a foreign God IS.(Ezekiel)
Eating lamb is not an abomination fo the Hebrews, but it is for the Egyptians.(Genesis)
Eating the meat of a goat that has been sacrificed is not an abomination, unless that goat has been sacrificed to a foreign God.(Deuteronomy)
Gold and silver are okay to have, but the gold and silver from an idol is an abomination.(Deuteronomy)
Making idols, passing kids through the fire, burning incense, worshipping as other tribes do, all of these things are called tow'ebah, all of these things are part of the worship of foreign Gods.

well actually wrote:

<quoted text>
Leviticus 20:13 clearly states: If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.

So blow j*bs are okay because that is not lying with a woman? You can't give a woman a blow j*b. How do you spell absurd?

dew4794 wrote:

<quoted text>
So blow j*bs are okay because that is not lying with a woman? You can't give a woman a blow j*b. How do you spell absurd?

What is not clear about these paragraphs?
http://www.youtube.com/watch...

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22 Professing themselves to be wise, liberal Caucasians became fools,
23 and changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and four-footed beasts, and creeping things.
24 ¶ Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves:
25 who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 ¶ For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.
28 ¶ And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 without understanding, covenant-breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 who, knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

These auguments will go nowhere, and besides we are all tired of hearing homosexuals, male and female, try to justify their behavior. Hey, if you want to be gay, that is your problem (and risk). You pay the consequences. Neither society nor Mother Nature can tolerate what does not improve and propogate the human condition, so there will be prices to pay for those who believe and conduct themselves otherwise.

Lets see now, say you have a psychological problem and you find you would like to receive assistence from a professional who could guide you toward health and adjustment. Who would you go to. A shaman/witch doctor (called Preachers) who waves a thick book about that dates to 2500 years ago as the basis for your therapy or would you visit a trained mental health pro who would help you see that if your gay your not nuts let alone going to hell.

View the Marching Morons wrote:

Ministers who follow sexual ideas from 2000 years ago are following the Word of God, not the ideas of Man.
There is a difference. It's not a gray area. It's not a philosophy of contention. The Bible is very clear on the subject of homosexuality, beastiality, etc...
The Bible is also very clear on forgiveness, casting the first stone, and staying true to the Word of God. Sooo... true.
Stay out of my bedroom, and I'll stay out of yours. Stay out of my business and I'll do you the same favor. It is not for me to judge. Your choices are between you, whoever you're with, and God (whether you believe in Him, or not).

soo true, think it "old fashioned" don't make it true. in the end , it will be too late for these that believe a lie! they need to study t he bible , and then decide if it is "just old fashioned" ways.

"neither society...can tolerate.."
If you live in St Louis you will find your now in the minority. Most people are very tolerant of Gays now and detest hatred toward them. The vast majority of urban educated folks look down on ignorant haters.

Prodigal Son wrote:

The conservative evangelicals are being left in the dust. They will ban gays while they fade from veiw. Modern people are more compassionate than these Ministers who follow sexual ideas from 2000 years ago and reject scientific psychological ideas.

who are the modern people" yep! read what scripture says about people waxing worse and worse. are people not doing this very thing? yes sir re-buddy! go figure. better get it right! while you have a chance

Dianne, I used to be an ordained Minister when I was younger. I came to my senses and stopped the stupid stuff thinking that there was this pissed off God waiting to burn untold billions in an eternal hell. Worst of all was the jerks in church who acted more like they worshiped Satan and certainly not a loving Jesus. There is nothing more evil than a Baptist deacon. I got it right now Dianne. No more hate, no more putting up with phonies, no more deceit, no more self righteous fools telling me how they think we should live when they do something VERY differant than what they are telling us.

Prodigal Son wrote:

Dianne, I used to be an ordained Minister when I was younger. I came to my senses and stopped the stupid stuff thinking that there was this pissed off God waiting to burn untold billions in an eternal hell. Worst of all was the jerks in church who acted more like they worshiped Satan and certainly not a loving Jesus. There is nothing more evil than a Baptist deacon. I got it right now Dianne. No more hate, no more putting up with phonies, no more deceit, no more self righteous fools telling me how they think we should live when they do something VERY differant than what they are telling us.

Hmmm no more hate???? Sounds like by your words on this post you hate religion.

dew4794 wrote:

<quoted text>This abomination is the subject of idol worship to foreign gods.

No, this abomination has NOTHING to do with idol worship and false gods. This particular abomination deals with a man having sex with a man.

It's a shame you can become an "ordained" minister without actually reading, or comprehending the Bible.

God is not a hateful diety slobbering over the opportunity to cast people into the lake of fire. He will, however, let you choose to go there.

It's clear, very clear, but you don't want to hear that. It differs from your human ideas and values.

The Good News is, Jesus came to help, if you'll let him. If not, sunscreen won't be of much help.

The rules about not lying, stealing, about honoring thy mother and father, do not murder (kill is not the correct translation, btw, murder is a closer translation for "kill with anger")....all those rules are OK because it feels good for your human ideas, morals, and values, even if they are over 2000 years old.

You don't like the rest because it keeps your from doing what YOU want to do, because YOU think if FEELS good. Ever hear of "sins of the flesh" or "the flesh is weak"? I'd guess you were probably preaching the Prosperity through God message, "Amen, and pass the collection plate, don't be stingy because if you give to me, God will give to you and we'll all prosper".
But not everyone can be Benny Hinn, or Jim Baker, or (insert monetarily rich preacher here).

Perhaps we can all just pick and choose the laws and rules we want to follow and all will be ok.

Personally, I think the bank robbing rule shouldn't apply to me when I'm short of cash. Let's see how that works out, eh?

View the Marching Morons wrote:

<quoted text>
No, this abomination has NOTHING to do with idol worship and false gods. This particular abomination deals with a man having sex with a man.
It's a shame you can become an "ordained" minister without actually reading, or comprehending the Bible.

Since there are 112 verses that use the word tow'ebah, I am not going to cap all of them here. Go and read the word IN CONTEXT.

Weeping is not an abomination, but weeping for a foreign God IS.(Ezekiel)
Eating lamb is not an abomination for the Hebrews, but it is for the Egyptians.(Genesis)
Eating the meat of a goat that has been sacrificed is not an abomination, unless that goat has been sacrificed to a foreign God.(Deuteronomy)
Gold and silver are okay to have, but the gold and silver from an idol is an abomination.(Deuteronomy)
Making idols, passing kids through the fire, burning incense, worshipping as other tribes do, all of these things are called tow'ebah, all of these things are part of the worship of foreign Gods.
Since there are 112 verses that use the word tow'ebah, I am not going to c&p all of them here. Go and read the word IN CONTEXT.

Making idols, passing kids through the fire, burning incense, worshipping as other tribes do, all of these things are called tow'ebah, all of these things are part of the worship of foreign Gods.