World's Largest Landfill Natural Gas Plant Opens in Livermore

tina anne wrote:

Someone finally figured out the only biofuel source that dosn't steal food out of peoples mouths.

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Anon wrote:

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Oh is that so? So you were planning on eating cornhusks and algae for an entree, and washing it all down with a glass of used frying oil or perhaps the renderings of animal carcasses, were you?
Sounds yummy.

tina anne wrote:

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No but corn husks and stalks are already being used for cattle feed and a nice thick juicy steak does sound good right now.
Also no one has figured out how to make the algae a practical solution and the animal carcasses are used for many other things.
Then again if you bothered to do any research on the other uses for these materials then you would have to acknosledge that they are rotton sources for biofuels. And we cannot have your pretty little ideas shot down due to common sense.

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Anon wrote:

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Tina, you said biofuel takes food out of people's mouths, so which foods is it, that you were planning to eat, that is being diverted to biofuel? I'm not aware of any such problem in this space.

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Anon wrote:

Corn residues are low quality feed. Besides, you'd be better off eating meat raised on a higher quality diet. When an animal is nourished properly you don't have to provide supplements and hormones to increase weight and fertility, additives that are potentially dangerous to humans.
HFCS is an extremely poor substitute for real sources of sugars and nobody should be eating it. Its diabetes and obesity in a can.
Veggie oil has no human usage and is thrown away unless used for a fossil fuel alternative. Manure, and "green waste" from urban garbage operation are excellent components for biofuel production and nobody is going to eat them. Where for example do you suppose all the NG in the landfill comes from? Its from decomp and fermentation of organic material like the trimmings from your lawn, the stuff from your dinner you threw in the trash, even the dirty diapers. That's not dinner either, its just garbage.
Before people started drinking so much soda and eating sugary foods, most of the midwest corn crop used to be plowed under after the harvest, or burned, not even used for feed (since it was nutritionally so poor that you can't get a brood animal through the winter on it).
Corn is so energy intensive to produce that the highest possible use of the crop residue is recycling, not food production. Not only is half the crop "waste", but it consumes an exorbitant amount of raw material and energy inputs. Not a "green" crop at all. People would be much better off with a backyard vegetable garden. And if we weren't eating 16B pounds of HFCS per year, we'd be improving our national profile.
Industrial farming is really killing the planet. Hopefully there can be some sensible reforms to change how we coax the earth to provide us with food rather than try to bend the earth to our will regardless of how much energy we waste in doing so.

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tina anne wrote:

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Reaching arn't we. Those "corn residues" your refering to are the equlivant to hay in quality. When properly used with other feedstock provideds a balanced diet that helps the livestock bulk up quickly and the additives have the same effects on the livestock that multivitams and other medications provide for humans. I know farmers who feed it all throught the winter with excellent results. Once shredded it is easily digested and cattle and hogs not only survived the winter but grew fat and went to slaughter raised on corn.
High Fruitcose Corn Syrup is used since it is cheaper and easier to handle than sugar. It is used in nearly everything that you find in the grocery store and on the tables around the world in cans, boxs and jars plus things like choclate and candies.
Vegitable oil like sunflower and corn oil is used to fry nearly everything on the planet since some experts declared using anaimal fat extremely bad for us. I even have a couple of bottles of vegitable oil in my kitchen as well. The reason someone fould out that old vegitable oil was a good subsitute for diesel.
Industrial farming is the only way to feed the people of this planet. Those who love organic have yet to figure out how to get the production levels that industrial meets on a regular basis. Also keep in mind that many do not have have back yards and even those who have do not have anywhere near enought land able to do more than provide weekend dinner fixings. Which would also affect the amounts of material going into your landfill that is producing methane and that would affect the only sensiable source of biofuel I have seen.
In a nut shell corn is raided in such large quanities because it is such a useful crop that is used in nearly every part of your diet. It also is used for ten percent of the fuel that runs the nations cars. And start doing your research rather than listening to whatever fits your world views.

Anon wrote:

No, 81H, she is just wrong and being pig headed about it. She doesn't even have her facts straight, like her absurd claim that corn stalks are comparable in quality to hay. That is simply flat out wrong. Like other grains, hay itself is graded in various qualities, and the worst hay is perhaps comparable to "fortified" corn residue.(Requires treatment with anhydrous ammonia, mmm yummy.) In any case, corn residues are low quality roughage, and cattle will eat them last when given a choice.
Corn is a very wasteful crop, and using the residues for animal feed is certainly less efficient than using it for energy, since raising cattle is itself a very inefficient process from the perspective of input energy vs output. To me, Tina sounds like a shill for the agri-business industry. Perhaps she's got lots of Monsanto stock?
Tina, btw, you might want to do some fact checking on what you think cattle are fed and what's in it. If you did, you'd learn that in general, animals in the feedlots are under nearly constant prophylactic antibiotic therapy, a necessity due to their cramped living conditions and the resultant poor state of their immune systems. In addition, because they are being raised for protein and fat content that are out-of-bounds with what a natural animal might have, they lack the nutritional profile of a grass fed animal.
If there is any doubt as to the superiority of grazing, just try comparing the relative cost of grass vs corn fed beef at the market.(or just eat it to taste the difference).
Americans should be eating less red meat anyway, and more fish, fruits and vegetables. I like a good steak as much as the next carnivore, but the amount of grain wasted in meat production is astronomical. As for HFCS, as stated before, it is diabetes mellitus/obesity in a can, and I believe it is a primary factor in the nutritional and lifestyle problems plaguing this country.

tina anne wrote:

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Maybe you should study up and find out the facts for yourself. The fact is the feed lots are the last stop before slaughter and that has to do more with getting the taste that the consumer prefers than anything else. I have compared the cost of feeding various feedstuff when I was growing up and taking animals to the local fair as part of 4H projects. I have realitives who still farm to this day and a call last night not only confirmed it but several are not even bothering with hay anymore. Of course they will pasture the animals in the summer time but in the winter when grazing is not an option they now prefer silage.
Also silage is just another part of using the entire plant with exception of the roots. Like wheat, corn is a high value and very productive crop that has been grown for centuries. Notice all the links that prove my point.
What is your real point since your obviously have not done any research on the subject. It is more organic or vegan? Because some of your comments tell me your not interested in what it takes the feed people. Nor are you interested in facts but propaganda. That much is obvious since your shrill comment. I have yet to see anyone who has done the research on a subject or not spouting propaganda who didn't use that and Big whatever.
http://extension.missouri.edu/publications/Di...
http://cropsoil.psu.edu/Extension/Facts/AgFac...
http://www.ontariocorn.org/classroom/products...
http://www.campsilos.org/mod3/students/c_hist...

Copa wrote:

81 - Anon is a racist, so he would not go on Oprah, even if in this world, he was extended such invitation.

81 Hater wrote:

Tina, I'm telling you... your wasting your time. I mean, lets look at ANON's expertise:
He knows how to run the government better than any elected official.
He knows the ins and outs of the PERS retirement system better than anyone who is actually in it.
He knows the ins and outs of fire / police service better than anyone who has actually done the job.
Now, he knows more about farming, feed, beef, and food in general, than anyone who actually owns a farm.
Wow, ANON, you are incredible. I would think you would be on Oprah by now with all that incredible knowledge. Christ, if we would just listen to you, we would probably have world peace.